"
q1wet3 wrote:
I think you forgot to factor in the Derp factor...
MF only affects loot IF you KILL the target
-- The Derps will culling strike your bosses.
Finding 5 players all with similar high MF is not achievable for the common player.
Finding 5 players that won't derp your Exalted and say, "derpa derpa hahaha!" is a pain in the arse. I enjoy party play when my friends on, but the pugs are dog-eat-dog.
Now we all have to hold hands and skip to the beat of the party.
Actually no, the derp factor would be the *No IIQ gear, 6 party, with 50% runningtime*.
0.5 loot factor for each player.
Same as the *Solo with no IIQ gear and 50% running time with multi-loading*.
0.5 loot factor for the player.
Assuming a Pub party has 2 Players and 4 vacuums, with 50% runningtime.
0.16 loot factor for each player.
So according to my math (in general, see page 39) the only party thats viable is a solid grinding group that knows what to do and when to do it, otherwise solo grind with multi-loading is better.
Another problem is the *has to be close by to increase the IIQ in party*, which further reduces loot factor for each player in a party.
Assuming someone runs off and gets a loot pinata to drop loot its only, with 50% runningtime:
0.02 Loot factor, unless they ninja in which case they get 0.14 Loot factor worth of loot.
Last edited by Planetsurvival#1516 on Mar 20, 2013, 4:07:09 PM
|
|
"
andybmcc wrote:
So as a solo player am I penalized for killing out of range?
No, as a solo player you are penalized for joining a party.
"Together we can all achieve less"
[img]http://i50.tinypic.com/2cqeioj.jpg[/img]
|
Posted byq1wet3#5379on Mar 20, 2013, 3:56:04 PM
|
|
This may seem sarcastic but I honestly wonder now if this game will eventually make it fully party based, anyone can join your game, fully pvp so you can be slaughtered on the sly while fighting a boss to be "loot killed" all because the loud and most boisterous people are the ones who are psycho nut jobs who need to prove they are better and the measure of their "betterness" is by forcing a one-sided view point down other peoples throats.
Be honest, without the need to force an opinion down anyone's throat you would not have the phrase "multibox abuse" instead it would be comments on how its nice to see people enjoying a game their own way and in their own time in their own home.
Never come between a man and his goals or ambitions because in all things we made choices, changing that makes the choices pointless as well as futile and is there any thinking/non sheep orientated man willing to accept futility as fun?
|
Posted bywadler#6291on Mar 20, 2013, 4:05:33 PM
|
"
wadler wrote:
I have read posts talking of multi client abuse, I do not get why its called abuse here just because its not a mimic to how some like to play while in other games e.g. EVE online mutli boxing is rewarded with less monthly cost for multiple accounts and is so celebrated that people have you tube videos on their exorbitant computer/monitor setups. Also I can only personally use between 1 and 3 clients depending on if the missus is using the net too so where does the 6 clients come into it? If that were the norm then wouldn't I be using more than my 3 max? And yes I use 2 clients in eve online, I used more than one character in diablo and will use more than one character in any game that supports it if I so choose AND I will even have snide comments about people who can only use 1 client because they either have no idea how to or do not have the mental faculties to use more than 1...that's aimed at the half wits who by their words have insulted me by calling what I find fun as "abuse".
It's legal, but it is still exploitative. GGG is doing things like this patch and the chaos recipe nerf to combat it, so they obviously feel that it is not something they want happening. They did the wrong thing here though and harmed people doing things which should be allowed.
I thought the idea behind not giving instanced loot and all that was that players are supposed to compete for loot. Graphical lag is a legitimate concern, but I personally am not having problems like I did before, just not having enough time to cut through the lag/click problems to get my loot, as long as I am paying attention.
I don't think anyone has a right to complain about ninja'ing anymore. They either feel entitled to every little thing that drops and want the right to exclude those drops from people forever, or they are just bad at managing their own parties. If I want to run a party to get max EXP and I want it to be no ninja, I have to pay attention. Is XxBowHoexX hovering over every one of my drops? I just insta-kick them. Is there only 4 people near me? I just hover them and kick the rest. Eventually you will get a civilized group going if you want one.
What this patch really nerfed is "chesters", but the people complaining about this are off-base. They either fail to manage their own parties (if they really want max EXP), or they are shooting themselves in the foot. If you have 3-5 people together, you should still be breezing through content, even if 1 or 2 are off solo-ing.
The "party" in the party is also getting the +quantity from the people who are off on their own. I actually had a conversation just two days ago with a party leader, when one member was shitting themselves because they saw someone off on their own. They got it and were cool with me staying in and soloing.
This was from another party in the past few days. There were more and more high levels joining Fellshrine after the chaos nerf because it was undeniably a good way to get orbs. It still isn't on pace with multiboxing or as easy though.
This nerf is a nerf to everyone in the team's drops too. Besides the graphics lag and all the problems dealing with idiots who like curse over your triple curses or think cyclone should auto path you over a cliff, partying just isn't worth it to get loot. The ebst way is still multiboxing.
I thought we were going to eventually have a cutthroat league where anyone can join instances and kill those players? Why the hell can't I join an instance and just solo farm if I want?
If you are going to nerf solo drops and make this awkward small radius I need to be near the team, make the monsters have less life in accordance with those drops.
This is how GGG can stop people earning far outside what regular players do with multiboxing, the old chaos recipe can be brought back, and everyone will be better off.
1. Revert the ridiculous change in 0.10.4
2. Do not tell us exactly the parameters of how you are monitoring player actions in the patch.
3. The game currently has some way of monitoring what players are doing. Stop looking at proximity in the zone. Create some sort of algorithm which looks at player activity and possibly difference in player level from the zone.
If 5/6th of the team is level 20 in a 50 zone, and all they have done for the past hour is go in and out of portals, never utilizing spells/attacks and never dealing damage, they don't contribute their +50% IIQ.
If the player has been "playing normally", attacking or doing stuff, maybe stopped to put some skill points on or went to town to AFK/sell for 5 minutes, let them continue to add IIQ.
"This would be easy to implement" is something programmers hate hearing, but really I expect this isn't that bad. Doing nothing means that this type of multibox boss farming is going to just be the accepted best way to collect loot and it has not been stopped.
Last edited by Chypre#0921 on Mar 20, 2013, 4:09:02 PM
|
Posted byChypre#0921on Mar 20, 2013, 4:07:42 PM
|
"
wadler wrote:
Be honest, without the need to force an opinion down anyone's throat you would not have the phrase "multibox abuse" instead it would be comments on how its nice to see people enjoying a game their own way and in their own time in their own home.
Be honest, is the fact that multiboxing earns far more than playing with one client fair to people who can't run a lot of stuff on their computers?
Be honest, do multiboxers really want to have to do it? Wouldn't it be more fun to just have some like monster level 68 areas where people could just go to farm, enter when they want and not be forced to deal with random groups of chaos damage mobs or be tied to going through the whole map.
Maps should still be the place for all the top end stuff, but I don't always want to do them. My character isn't great for mass chaos damage/no regen maps. I'm making a new character which will be better, but I need god knows how many more jewelers to make my armor 6S.
My farming rate is now 29% of what it used to be.
|
Posted byChypre#0921on Mar 20, 2013, 4:16:10 PM
|
"
Chypre wrote:
"
wadler wrote:
Be honest, without the need to force an opinion down anyone's throat you would not have the phrase "multibox abuse" instead it would be comments on how its nice to see people enjoying a game their own way and in their own time in their own home.
Be honest, is the fact that multiboxing earns far more than playing with one client fair to people who can't run a lot of stuff on their computers?
Be honest, do multiboxers really want to have to do it? Wouldn't it be more fun to just have some like monster level 68 areas where people could just go to farm, enter when they want and not be forced to deal with random groups of chaos damage mobs or be tied to going through the whole map.
Maps should still be the place for all the top end stuff, but I don't always want to do them. My character isn't great for mass chaos damage/no regen maps. I'm making a new character which will be better, but I need god knows how many more jewelers to make my armor 6S.
My farming rate is now 29% of what it used to be.
Jewelers orbs are common, I have a stash page full of them...
In solo, I can still manage a 6s per 2 runs of docks... 3.5 jewelers per run.
Making a 6s takes around 60-80 jewelers on average... Its the links that you have to worry about.
It takes 60-80 to get a 5L... If your average 1 fusing per run, that's 60-80 runs... Lots of grinding fun.
[img]http://i50.tinypic.com/2cqeioj.jpg[/img]
|
Posted byq1wet3#5379on Mar 20, 2013, 4:23:03 PM
|
"
Chypre wrote:
"
wadler wrote:
I have read posts talking of multi client abuse, I do not get why its called abuse here just because its not a mimic to how some like to play while in other games e.g. EVE online mutli boxing is rewarded with less monthly cost for multiple accounts and is so celebrated that people have you tube videos on their exorbitant computer/monitor setups. Also I can only personally use between 1 and 3 clients depending on if the missus is using the net too so where does the 6 clients come into it? If that were the norm then wouldn't I be using more than my 3 max? And yes I use 2 clients in eve online, I used more than one character in diablo and will use more than one character in any game that supports it if I so choose AND I will even have snide comments about people who can only use 1 client because they either have no idea how to or do not have the mental faculties to use more than 1...that's aimed at the half wits who by their words have insulted me by calling what I find fun as "abuse".
It's legal, but it is still exploitative. GGG is doing things like this patch and the chaos recipe nerf to combat it, so they obviously feel that it is not something they want happening. They did the wrong thing here though and harmed people doing things which should be allowed.
I thought the idea behind not giving instanced loot and all that was that players are supposed to compete for loot. Graphical lag is a legitimate concern, but I personally am not having problems like I did before, just not having enough time to cut through the lag/click problems to get my loot, as long as I am paying attention.
I don't think anyone has a right to complain about ninja'ing anymore. They either feel entitled to every little thing that drops and want the right to exclude those drops from people forever, or they are just bad at managing their own parties. If I want to run a party to get max EXP and I want it to be no ninja, I have to pay attention. Is XxBowHoexX hovering over every one of my drops? I just insta-kick them. Is there only 4 people near me? I just hover them and kick the rest. Eventually you will get a civilized group going if you want one.
What this patch really nerfed is "chesters", but the people complaining about this are off-base. They either fail to manage their own parties (if they really want max EXP), or they are shooting themselves in the foot. If you have 3-5 people together, you should still be breezing through content, even if 1 or 2 are off solo-ing.
The "party" in the party is also getting the +quantity from the people who are off on their own. I actually had a conversation just two days ago with a party leader, when one member was shitting themselves because they saw someone off on their own. They got it and were cool with me staying in and soloing.
This was from another party in the past few days. There were more and more high levels joining Fellshrine after the chaos nerf because it was undeniably a good way to get orbs. It still isn't on pace with multiboxing or as easy though.
This nerf is a nerf to everyone in the team's drops too. Besides the graphics lag and all the problems dealing with idiots who like curse over your triple curses or think cyclone should auto path you over a cliff, partying just isn't worth it to get loot. The ebst way is still multiboxing.
I thought we were going to eventually have a cutthroat league where anyone can join instances and kill those players? Why the hell can't I join an instance and just solo farm if I want?
If you are going to nerf solo drops and make this awkward small radius I need to be near the team, make the monsters have less life in accordance with those drops.
This is how GGG can stop people earning far outside what regular players do with multiboxing, the old chaos recipe can be brought back, and everyone will be better off.
1. Revert the ridiculous change in 0.10.4
2. Do not tell us exactly the parameters of how you are monitoring player actions in the patch.
3. The game currently has some way of monitoring what players are doing. Stop looking at proximity in the zone. Create some sort of algorithm which looks at player activity and possibly difference in player level from the zone.
If 5/6th of the team is level 20 in a 50 zone, and all they have done for the past hour is go in and out of portals, never utilizing spells/attacks and never dealing damage, they don't contribute their +50% IIQ.
If the player has been "playing normally", attacking or doing stuff, maybe stopped to put some skill points on or went to town to AFK/sell for 5 minutes, let them continue to add IIQ.
"This would be easy to implement" is something programmers hate hearing, but really I expect this isn't that bad. Doing nothing means that this type of multibox boss farming is going to just be the accepted best way to collect loot and it has not been stopped.
*facepalm* I'll try and make this simpler...I do not know you and have not partied with you, for all I know you could be pro ninja looting or anti ninja looting, pro leader loot rights or anti loot rights but either way I want the option to decline being in your party, not as a curtacy but as an inalienable right to refuse being forced into the way you personally deal with partying and the only way to do so is to have the option "accept" or "refuse". This is very basically what every single player has the right to without someone saying "no, nerf the option to decline - what does he think this is, a game played by sitting in a room by himself or something"? Yes i use sarcasm as a way to make a point....sarcasm takes an innate ability to understand the subject in question then turn it into something you can shake your head at in pity.
Could a dev or someone similar please let me know if this game is going to be only multiplayer with a very limited item set so as to not make anyone feel slighted when they do not have the same item or amount of items? I kinda liked the idea of there not being limits though and anything i can do you can do mentality instead of one size fits all.
Never come between a man and his goals or ambitions because in all things we made choices, changing that makes the choices pointless as well as futile and is there any thinking/non sheep orientated man willing to accept futility as fun?
|
Posted bywadler#6291on Mar 20, 2013, 4:27:39 PM
|
"
Chypre wrote:
"
wadler wrote:
Be honest, without the need to force an opinion down anyone's throat you would not have the phrase "multibox abuse" instead it would be comments on how its nice to see people enjoying a game their own way and in their own time in their own home.
Be honest, is the fact that multiboxing earns far more than playing with one client fair to people who can't run a lot of stuff on their computers?
Be honest, do multiboxers really want to have to do it? Wouldn't it be more fun to just have some like monster level 68 areas where people could just go to farm, enter when they want and not be forced to deal with random groups of chaos damage mobs or be tied to going through the whole map.
Maps should still be the place for all the top end stuff, but I don't always want to do them. My character isn't great for mass chaos damage/no regen maps. I'm making a new character which will be better, but I need god knows how many more jewelers to make my armor 6S.
My farming rate is now 29% of what it used to be.
Well, at low levels, before the recipe nerf, MBing merviel would net about an exalted worth of currency an hour. That's gone. Doing levels that are 60+ drastically reduced the efficiency. The efficiency is only maybe +50%, due to the extra time it takes. But it's more fun, since the monsters don't just die at the sight of you.
Do we want to multibox? Fuck no. We want /players X. Multiboxing was as close as we could get to pumping the risk:reward ratio though, and making the game fun.
No. Calm down. Learn to enjoy losing.
|
Posted byb15h09#7812on Mar 20, 2013, 4:30:56 PM
|
"
q1wet3 wrote:
"
Chypre wrote:
"
wadler wrote:
Be honest, without the need to force an opinion down anyone's throat you would not have the phrase "multibox abuse" instead it would be comments on how its nice to see people enjoying a game their own way and in their own time in their own home.
Be honest, is the fact that multiboxing earns far more than playing with one client fair to people who can't run a lot of stuff on their computers?
Be honest, do multiboxers really want to have to do it? Wouldn't it be more fun to just have some like monster level 68 areas where people could just go to farm, enter when they want and not be forced to deal with random groups of chaos damage mobs or be tied to going through the whole map.
Maps should still be the place for all the top end stuff, but I don't always want to do them. My character isn't great for mass chaos damage/no regen maps. I'm making a new character which will be better, but I need god knows how many more jewelers to make my armor 6S.
My farming rate is now 29% of what it used to be.
Jewelers orbs are common, I have a stash page full of them...
In solo, I can still manage a 6s per 2 runs of docks... 3.5 jewelers per run.
Making a 6s takes around 60-80 jewelers on average... Its the links that you have to worry about.
It takes 60-80 to get a 5L... If your average 1 fusing per run, that's 60-80 runs... Lots of grinding fun.
Dude, my replies and/or questions are based around the need for a casual gaming environment. Where you do not force anything on anyone for any reason and includes things like "no jealousy of another player" and the like so "honestly" what I write is inclusive of all play styles and every single persons personal circumstances from having 1 computer shared between 16 siblings in a family to being a multi-millionare with more than 1 computer but does not include one single persons need to have the same as his neighbor and that persons need to limit his neighbor based on his own very personal circumstances. Or simply put.. get your head away from my arse and stop smelling what i had for dinner and eat your own.
Never come between a man and his goals or ambitions because in all things we made choices, changing that makes the choices pointless as well as futile and is there any thinking/non sheep orientated man willing to accept futility as fun?
|
Posted bywadler#6291on Mar 20, 2013, 4:41:29 PM
|
"
b15h09 wrote:
Well, at low levels, before the recipe nerf, MBing merviel would net about an exalted worth of currency an hour. That's gone. Doing levels that are 60+ drastically reduced the efficiency. The efficiency is only maybe +50%, due to the extra time it takes. But it's more fun, since the monsters don't just die at the sight of you.
Do we want to multibox? Fuck no. We want /players X. Multiboxing was as close as we could get to pumping the risk:reward ratio though, and making the game fun.
Agreed.
S L O W E R
|
Posted byampdecay#1924on Mar 20, 2013, 4:43:21 PM
|
