RMT Policy: Why You Should be Pro-Choice!

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Elynole wrote:

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relaxyo wrote:

That made no sense LOL. Did you earn his car in any way?

Nope, and he never earned ownership of the item he was wanting to sell.

You sign a ToS when you make an account, acknowledging that you understand your limitations in the game. If you don't read that ToS, it's your own ignorance. You own know ownership of any of the content whatsoever, your payment for playing the game is entertainment and satisfaction - nothing else. You cannot sell items you do not own.

My car is leased and you would still be arrested for stealing it. But again, I would allow you to take a picture of it and sell that picture, and I highly doubt the leasing agency would have any problems with the sale of that picture of something they own!

If you don't own any items in game, would you mind giving me all of your items that you are allowed to trade in game? Since you don't own them it shouldn't be much of an issue right?

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slyme wrote:

My car is leased and you would still be arrested for stealing it. But again, I would allow you to take a picture of it and sell that picture, and I highly doubt the leasing agency would have any problems with the sale of that picture of something they own!

If you don't own any items in game, would you mind giving me all of your items that you are allowed to trade in game? Since you don't own them it shouldn't be much of an issue right?

Please just read the Terms of Service you agreed to. It's really that simple, you don't own the items for commercial use. You can use them personally, but making money off them is not within the bounds of what you signed up for. I don't need to explain any other analogies for you to get this, if you can't comprehend it - then possibly take it to an attorney and let them spell it out for you.

I want to once more bring to the attention from the original post:

I asked Chris Wilson clearly during open beta about this and he clearly replied in a way that contradicts the current policy. I since have bought a bunch of microtransaction, while under that assumption. Should I now ask for a refund because they were sold under false context? I think I would have valid point in asking for one; although I would not because I support GGG and I would encourage others to support GGG just as well. I don't think that RMT through third parties is detrimental to the game, and I do think it is inevitable whether allowed or forbidden (and hey the forbidden fruit is always the sweetest).

And again, I would point out, I would not see the game designed so that you have to purchase any items to "win" or ask you as an individual to sell or buy any of your items whatsoever. (Intellectual property of GGG perhaps, but in game it is treated as your property)

I am just fighting for others like yourself to stop placing restrictions on others behavior based on the conduct you as individual personally favor. I would like to draw an analogy to abortion debates. I stand pro-choice. In the pro-choice law set, a women can choose whether an abortion is a religiously intolerable procedure or something that is actually a wise decision. Does that mean I want to go around aborting babies left and right?
No, it only means I wouldn't restrict anothers available choices because I have different viewpoints. Likewise, GGG shouldn't restrict players available choices merely because they have such a strict anti-P2W stance.

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Elynole wrote:

Please just read the Terms of Service you agreed to. It's really that simple, you don't own the items for commercial use. You can use them personally, but making money off them is not within the bounds of what you signed up for. I don't need to explain any other analogies for you to get this, if you can't comprehend it - then possibly take it to an attorney and let them spell it out for you.

I am arguing against the terms, not against their existance. I am aware of the terms and I feel they are unjust in this matter.

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slyme wrote:

I am arguing against the terms, not against their existance. I am aware of the terms and I feel they are unjust in this matter.

Have fun with that one.

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Elynole wrote:

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slyme wrote:

I am arguing against the terms, not against their existance. I am aware of the terms and I feel they are unjust in this matter.

Have fun with that one.

I already have. I am arguing in theory about how I feel these RMT situations should be handled rationally. Obviously this would require a change in policy (and likely the terms).
Does that make the point I make any less valid? I do not believe that it does.

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slyme wrote:

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Elynole wrote:

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slyme wrote:

I am arguing against the terms, not against their existance. I am aware of the terms and I feel they are unjust in this matter.

Have fun with that one.

I already have. I am arguing in theory about how I feel these RMT situations should be handled rationally. Obviously this would require a change in policy (and likely the terms).
Does that make the point I make any less valid? I do not believe that it does.

You stated yourself you received your answer from Chris very clearly. Arguing a legal obligation that's practiced globally is quite the hike up the hill for someone who put so much emphasis in the argument as to his time being important, don't you think?

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Elynole wrote:

You stated yourself you received your answer from Chris very clearly. Arguing a legal obligation that's practiced globally is quite the hike up the hill for someone who put so much emphasis in the argument as to his time being important, don't you think?

My time isn't the only time that holds importance. Yours does too, as do all player, workers, and people in general.

I am writing this because in my ideal scenario I can play a game for leisure and withdraw some money from it when I rarely am broke for a few days waiting on a deposit or something. This is the game I enjoy playing, and that is the playstyle I would like to adopt. Additionally, I am posting to take a stand for everyone who also feels pro-choice about P2W. Hopefully they appreciate my time, I could've found some mean items during it!

since everything has already been said, here's what I've got to say:

no.

Their game, their rules. Chris Wilson has stated several times that he does not want this game to go the route of others with regard to RMT. If you get caught using such methods, you're going to get banned. GGG have already reiterated this several times as being a fundamental aspect of their design policy.

This is their game, so you will adhere to their ToS and rules.

Trying to convince them that RMT should be made a valid choice is really going to have about as much effect as snapping a finger and hoping that you'd be able to hypnotize some random guy on the street.

While I understand your viewpoint, it isn't necessarily something quite a few players among the playerbase are going to accept. No P2W is one of the big selling points of PoE to everybody else, unless it happens to be illegal methods of P2W like item selling, botting, and account theft.

It's been said before time and again, but it is not going to happen.

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slyme wrote:

I asked Chris Wilson of GGG in game during closed beta if RMT would be allowed on third party sites, and he responded by saying it would not be a supported feature and would be frowned upon but not strictly forbidden. (and this is the account I asked him on so feel free to look through chat logs [it was in game])

Now I read in the trading forum it is forbidden. I feel cheated because I spent money on my open beta key and microtransactions while under this assumption that I could at some point if I became short on cash I could sell off some items, or if I had an excess of money and a lack of time, I could use the money I made with my time to purchase to products of anothers time utilized.

The problem I see with this thread is OP's lack of reading comprehension. You were told that RMT wasn't going to be supported and you get surprised when you see that it is forbidden in the PoE forums? You assumed you'd be allowed to do it here. That's the problem. YOU and ASSUMED. Nobody lead you to believe that it'd be a possibility, you just misinterpreted what you were told.


Also, it's not strictly forbidden, it's just not something you are allowed to do here. Wanna do some RMT? Go do it elsewhere. Nobody will stop you.