RMT Policy: Why You Should be Pro-Choice!

If it weren't that RMT farmers ruin the game for regular players in many ways I couldn't give a rat's ass if someone else feels inclined to spend/make money on a game, but it really does mess up the game for people who don't want RMT...

I would support a feature that items would have a minimum orb value to trade, and you could give people more but not less to trade said item... that'd stop RMT dead in their tracks... In fact I might just hold on to that idea when GGG starts selling owner ruleset servers... that'd be mine :)

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slyme wrote:

If I have everything I need in game at some point and want to spend my time to obtain things out of game, then I believe should also serve as a mechanism for that as well, provided another agrees to purchase my findings. It happens inevitably through foreign websites anyways; why police and toll the player (who by the way is more likely by nature to purchase microtransactions if they are the type to purchase items/currency).

Because this is a legal issue. You own nothing of the game. GGG allows you access to their servers. Every online game does this, it's not your property - it's theirs. This game should be thought of as a service, and not a product because based around consumer legalities that's exactly what it is. I could go on naming analogies, but making money off of someone else's work isn't really an accepted business practice. Sorry.

Your time is based around entertainment. If you'd like to make money on video games, then do video game development - not making money off of someone else's work.

It's also good to note that when I was younger, playing video games - I used to sell items for real money. It's how I bought my first car, selling real estate and crafting material in UO on ebay. I'm not a saint at this kind of thing. Since then I've grown up and having now worked on the development side of things, I wouldn't want people side-alleying me for any of the work I do.

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Elynole wrote:

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slyme wrote:

If I have everything I need in game at some point and want to spend my time to obtain things out of game, then I believe should also serve as a mechanism for that as well, provided another agrees to purchase my findings. It happens inevitably through foreign websites anyways; why police and toll the player (who by the way is more likely by nature to purchase microtransactions if they are the type to purchase items/currency).

Because this is a legal issue. You own nothing of the game. GGG allows you access to their servers. Every online game does this, it's not your property - it's theirs. This game should be thought of as a service, and not a product because based around consumer legalities that's exactly what it is. I could go on naming analogies, but making money off of someone else's work isn't really an accepted business practice. Sorry.

Your time is based around entertainment. If you'd like to make money on video games, then do video game development - not making money off of someone else's work.

Legal issue only goes as far as can reach just me but i doubt the legal thing reach certain country,you can't apply same rule everywhere and also you can hit loophole too.

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Elynole wrote:

Your time is based around entertainment. If you'd like to make money on video games, then do video game development - not making money off of someone else's work.

It's also good to note that when I was younger, playing video games - I used to sell items for real money. It's how I bought my first car, selling real estate and crafting material in UO on ebay. I'm not a saint at this kind of thing. Since then I've grown up and having now worked on the development side of things, I wouldn't want people side-alleying me for any of the work I do.

On that note also if i remember a post ive seen GGG used that thing you are trying to prevent to get fund for the game thus if it true i find it kinda sad of them in a way to do a one way trick.

Problem is it will happen regardless of GGGs stance so do we..

Make it easier and safer for everyone and allow it on the forums, with GGG getting a price cut or..

Third party sites to those who want to pay.

Honestly its more fun doing everything yourself, but ive paid in game sbefore (korean mmos mostly)knight online comes to mind, spent probably 500-1k there. Crazy time sink there.

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Elynole wrote:

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slyme wrote:

Time is money freind

Can I sell your car to make money please? I know it's not mine, but I invested the time in finding someone to buy it?

Same analogy. You don't own the microtransactions, the items, the gear, the account, anything that is based around this game. It's still GGG's property.

That isn't the same analogy.

More analogous would be GGG is now Grinding Gear Government

Instead of needing workers they need players

They compensate for the task of playing with digital copies of things they invented (items here are analogous to the dollar bill).

Now player (worker) wants to exchange his items (compensation for time spent playing) for a currency he can use more broadly, to meet his needs.

This is much more analogous to the actual situation. If you want to sell a picture of my car, go right ahead. We are being rewarding in digital copies of items and there isn't anything inherently wrong with selling them.

The fact is GGG doesn't lose a car in the transaction. The distribution of their currencies and items are only redistributed to different individuals. No harm or loss is taken by GGG.

When I was 13 years old and could not yet get a working permit I used to sell Diablo 2 items on ebay, but they had similar policies and so we would have to include a disclaimor along the lines of :
"you are purchasing the time it took to acquire this item and the effort and time in the act of transferring the items not the actual items themselves which are intellectual property of blizzard"

This disclaimor could bypass the current policy anyways, and the policy is being bypassed constantly regardless if it's allowed or not. So my question is why bother prohibiting it.

Finally, I would again point out that your statements are attempting to limit my available activities as a player in the game, while I would never try and limit yours, or force you to play a way you did not want to.

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DCDTDito wrote:

Legal issue only goes as far as can reach just me but i doubt the legal thing reach certain country,you can't apply same rule everywhere and also you can hit loophole too.

Of course, me selling drugs on the street is OK too as long as I don't get caught, because really...can the police handle all the incidents and issues that happen, no? Doesn't mean it's right to do and in that case they could just block all access for that country.

GGG is strictly against Pay-to-Win. It would only cause more bitching on the forums because people who could pay for their gear would do so and those that couldn't would bitch about it - and I'd rather see bitching about not allowing RMT then seeing it about why is so and so able to be so awesome just because he has the ability to spend in-real-life money on a game.

GGG, I'm sure, could make shit loads of money if they did the RMT themselves, but they're against it. You should have to work for your advancement in the game.

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slyme wrote:

Now player (worker) wants to exchange his items (compensation for time spent playing) for a currency he can use more broadly, to meet his needs.

They're not yours. Again, you're looking at this wrong. You own nothing, you have no ownership of the content, you merely "lease" the ability to use such. Actually, with POE you don't even lease it as you're not paying a monthly subscription fee or buying the game. They are giving their service away for free.

Why should you make money on items in a game that isn't your property, in contrast that GGG is an actual company that's goal is to keep alive by making money - when they could just sell the items out flat if they wanted them sold.

It's not your decision to make whether you can or cannot sell items, because they're not yours. Period.

It's also not limiting to your gaming experience, as this would be based around the gaming experience that GGG originally presented with their service - which has nothing to do with outside selling of their services by a third party.

While paying cash for items in games like this is a total BITCH move.


Its just a testament to how good a game it is. For an indie game being able to influence RMT is pretty amazing.


GGG should be proud of that fact.. Even tho they make no money off it.

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Elynole wrote:

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slyme wrote:

If I have everything I need in game at some point and want to spend my time to obtain things out of game, then I believe should also serve as a mechanism for that as well, provided another agrees to purchase my findings. It happens inevitably through foreign websites anyways; why police and toll the player (who by the way is more likely by nature to purchase microtransactions if they are the type to purchase items/currency).

Because this is a legal issue. You own nothing of the game. GGG allows you access to their servers. Every online game does this, it's not your property - it's theirs. This game should be thought of as a service, and not a product because based around consumer legalities that's exactly what it is. I could go on naming analogies, but making money off of someone else's work isn't really an accepted business practice. Sorry.

Your time is based around entertainment. If you'd like to make money on video games, then do video game development - not making money off of someone else's work.

It's also good to note that when I was younger, playing video games - I used to sell items for real money. It's how I bought my first car, selling real estate and crafting material in UO on ebay. I'm not a saint at this kind of thing. Since then I've grown up and having now worked on the development side of things, I wouldn't want people side-alleying me for any of the work I do.

In my previous post I described the transaction as a service. Its classification as service or goods is not meaningful to the conversation. GGG allows us to use their servers yes, for our mutual benefit. I do not claim to own the servers, but GGG has granted me the right to give my winnings to anybody in game I want to. There is nothing in the sale of items that implies I am in any way claim ownership of the intellectual property, merely the transfer of winnings from one to another.

The statement getting at the fact that "selling anothers work is generally not accepted" ("It's not your decision to make whether you can or cannot sell items, because they're not yours. Period. ")
is blatantly false when stated in a matter of fact way as it was. Consider scientific research, this is a service no doubt that has a price attached. Yet they are drawing from conclusions of past studies, works of other idividuals, in order to formulate their position. Just referring to it as selling anothers work is not grounds to establish its illlegitimacy. Nor do I claim it is selling anothers work, but merely capitalizing on what one was able to do with their work. Now consider if I give you a toolbox (hell, for the hypothetical situation lets say I invented these tools!) do I have the right to claim all that you build with the tools? I don't think so. Selling items should not be associated with plaguerizing anothers intellectual property.