Cyclone

I love all these comments saying what garbage Cyclone is, comparing it to Cleave. Protip: You're built for Cleave, not for Cyclone. They are mechanically different, obviously you'll have less than optimal results using a skill you're not specced for. That's not to say Cyclone doesn't need some fixing, but this little circus happens every time a new skill is released. Then, somebody actually builds for it, brags about how good it is, and the flock falls in line. Every time.

Off the top of my head, mechanically this skill appears very well balanced. Will have to see it in action to judge the relativity of attacks / distance moved, though. I suspect that may be part of the issue, if it thins damage out over too large an area as opposed to cleave smacking smaller groups all at once. I do really like the mana conservation aspect of it though, and should this be in need of rebalancing that should never change!

Really need to improve control, survivablity(goes for melee classes in general too) and after that damage or range. I think control is the biggest thing but some kind of damage help is needed since one good group of voidbearers will end you fast.

After reading more pages of this than I probably should have, I think it's safe to come to the conclusion that at present, Cyclone is at its core a very well built skill, but it needs a lot of tweaking and buffs to turn it into a viable and desirable alternative to Cleave/Sweep spam. Whether or not the devs agree with this is to be seen.

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CanHasPants wrote:

I love all these comments saying what garbage Cyclone is, comparing it to Cleave. Protip: You're built for Cleave, not for Cyclone. They are mechanically different, obviously you'll have less than optimal results using a skill you're not specced for. That's not to say Cyclone doesn't need some fixing, but this little circus happens every time a new skill is released. Then, somebody actually builds for it, brags about how good it is, and the flock falls in line. Every time.

Off the top of my head, mechanically this skill appears very well balanced. Will have to see it in action to judge the relativity of attacks / distance moved, though. I suspect that may be part of the issue, if it thins damage out over too large an area as opposed to cleave smacking smaller groups all at once. I do really like the mana conservation aspect of it though, and should this be in need of rebalancing that should never change!

Ok ...

Than how is someone built for Cyclone compared to Cleave?

Are you saying that Cyclone cannot use Dual Wielding?

Or that we don't have enough armour?

Please throw your argument out there so I can fully understand where you are coming from.

I have 26k armour, I have 2.2k HP as a Shadow Dual Wielding 1h Sword Cleaver.

I have maxed out resistances and 25% chance to block.

I have 7.2k DPS with Cleave what am I missing?

Cyclone doesn't deal enough damage for it to be worth using and the fact you cannot stop mid-flight makes this skill terrible for Melee.

There is to pro to using this skill compared to Cleave. Want to move and attack at the same time?

Cleave + Quicksilver.

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mrmisterwaa wrote:

There is to pro to using this skill compared to Cleave. Want to move and attack at the same time?

Cleave + Quicksilver.

No need to move with cleave since i can hit everything half a screen away for over 15k

Cyclone just falls flat when compared to every other melee aoe

i really thought they would have made this skill really powerful, considering that melee cant even compare to range at farming rates, main reason is because they can turn almost all of there spells into aoe with LMP or GMP, so overall range just has awesome support gems to make them really good, while melee has just dmg booster and 2 shitty AOE skills now.... hope something will change.

Was looking forward to buying the saw blade effect... Oh well.


1) The cyclone spin effect needs to be be cancel-able
2) It shouldn't use the characters movement speed, all characters should be brought down to a baseline movement speed during the effect.
3) Similar to how knock-back pushes out... Cyclone needs to pull in; the range is pitiful.




P.S. I would have rather seen phase run brought back then to have this in its current state. It's simply a terrible decision to use Cyclone over WD/Flicker/Leap... Heck even SHIELD CHARGE outperforms it. Anyone defending Cyclone in it's current state must have overpaid for the gem on day one so now they have Stockholm syndrome.

The Cyclone skill duration should be a split second or less.

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Forfiter wrote:

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Chypre wrote:

Each of those spins hits twice, anything in the area of effect all around you.

I think we need clear statement by GGG about this because it doesn't seem like that skill work in that way.

What was being quoted previously was a statement for Mark at GGG on how the skill works. It clearly works this way. I have tested it with different characters with +AOE or not,the duelist passive or not and all types of 1H/2H weapons.

The spin is based on your weapon speed. If you have 3 APS vs 1.5, what you feel to be a spin is going to seem like it is hitting twice as much. The spin is based on weapon speed, not necessarily what you see and think is a spin and not the total "duration".

Cyclone is not a duration skill. It is based on where you click to target.

If you are dual wielding, each weapon hits once. 2H or 1h/shield, the weapon hits twice.

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narbays wrote:

Was looking forward to buying the saw blade effect... Oh well.


1) The cyclone spin effect needs to be be cancel-able

I don't think so. It might actually make it harder to use. It just needs the min distance shortened or removed, then it will be like D2's whirlwind. I feel like they just borrowed the mechanic from Lightning Warp or something..

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CanHasPants wrote:

I love all these comments saying what garbage Cyclone is, comparing it to Cleave. Protip: You're built for Cleave, not for Cyclone. They are mechanically different, obviously you'll have less than optimal results using a skill you're not specced for. That's not to say Cyclone doesn't need some fixing, but this little circus happens every time a new skill is released. Then, somebody actually builds for it, brags about how good it is, and the flock falls in line. Every time.

Off the top of my head, mechanically this skill appears very well balanced. Will have to see it in action to judge the relativity of attacks / distance moved, though. I suspect that may be part of the issue, if it thins damage out over too large an area as opposed to cleave smacking smaller groups all at once. I do really like the mana conservation aspect of it though, and should this be in need of rebalancing that should never change!

please don't discard all of the well-formed complaints about cyclones lackluster mechanics because you *think* some of us are "specced for cleave." the damage on cyclone is pitiful and the radius is pitiful compared to any other AoE in the game.

it is too difficult to reliably kill mobs with cyclone because of the lack of control, lack of damage, and lack of AoE radius. the lack of control could only be justified if the spell did major damage - it does not. stun immunity does not justify how pitifully the spell performs. the "flavor" of the spell - not being able to stop until you reach the destination - is a HUGE downside and there is no tradeoff for it. it's extremely dangerous, doesn't allow you to properly deliver all of the damage possible, and even messes with the loot system (can't pick up loot while twirling around).

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i can understand if GGG is hesitant about tweaking the skill to be more powerful - they should be. if this spell works as people want it to work, there would be no reason to use any other of the other melee AoEs. i would *love* for cyclone to just be a moving 360 degree cleave. but then cleave, as well as all the other AoEs when properly specced, would be pointless.

the only real solution is to completely reevaluate where melee is. the fact is that there are only a few niche builds for melee that compare to the vast amount of competitive ranged builds. everything about melee needs to be buffed. buff cyclone to where it needs to be and then give people a reason to still use cleave or leap slam or whatever else.

tl;dr cyclone won't be buffed because it would invalidate cleave, even though all of the melee AoEs need to be buffed. but they won't buff any of them because hybrid elemental/spellcleave builds are already too good.

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Off the top of my head, mechanically this skill appears very well balanced. Will have to see it in action to judge the relativity of attacks / distance moved, though.

oh, you haven't even used it yourself. well looks like i wasted my time targeting this feedback to you.