Evasion Fun Fact

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I don't just take frenzy charges for the Evasion Rating. The attackspeed boost is also nice. And while you don't have them up 100% of the time, it's still 80-90% and they are totally worth it in my opinion. Have you ever tried it? Ever since I tried it Frenzy is my single target skill of choice if possible. It's awesome :)

Last time I tried was on my duelist. He never made it past 50 and he was made looooong before there was a hint of a buff(lol long in a game that's been out for 6 weeks...you get the idea xP, made day 1). I didn't have the mana to maintain the skill without supports at normal speed, much less at the speed it granted with supports.

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I wonder if you can get a high enough Evasion Rating to actually make your build viable without getting any %Evasion nodes.

Define high enough.
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Ghobe wrote:
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I don't just take frenzy charges for the Evasion Rating. The attackspeed boost is also nice. And while you don't have them up 100% of the time, it's still 80-90% and they are totally worth it in my opinion. Have you ever tried it? Ever since I tried it Frenzy is my single target skill of choice if possible. It's awesome :)

Last time I tried was on my duelist. He never made it past 50 and he was made looooong before there was a hint of a buff(lol long in a game that's been out for 6 weeks...you get the idea xP, made day 1). I didn't have the mana to maintain the skill without supports at normal speed, much less at the speed it granted with supports.

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I wonder if you can get a high enough Evasion Rating to actually make your build viable without getting any %Evasion nodes.

Define high enough.


I'm currently playing a Dualist (lvl60) that uses Frenzy. I still have a lot of lvl17 Gems in my Stash that I can only start using at ~63, so there will be improvement coming soon. I can see why you would have Mana problems with Frenzy, that's why I will probably use Blood Magic for Frenzy. By the way I use Cleave for AoE Damage, which fits perfectly due to its low Mana Cost. I by the way did not take any Mana nodes but I plan to run Hatred, Determination and Purity on my Mana, which leaves me with very little Mana left. But Cleaves low cost combined with 2% Mana Leech that I have should do it. Right now I'm using 2 Auras without Reduced Mana (Gem is waiting in my stash...) and I'm doing just fine.
By the way the build I posted on page 3 is supposed to be the Evasion only version of my current Armor/Evasion Duelist. I plan on pretty much using the same skill set up.

About high enough evasion: It's not about the numbers but about your character being viable. Can you do maps with less tha say 5k Evasion and no Damage Reduction? I don't know. Haven't tried it. Maybe you can, but on paper it sounds very hard to me.
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Reizoko wrote:


About your tree: So you purely rely on Evasion from your gear and get Acrobatics? I'm not a huge fan of Acrobatics (on range characters it's fine, but I wouldn't use it on melee characters) because it also negates the damage reduction from Endurance Charges. I would take 5 Endurance Charges (flat 25% damage reduction) over 30% Dodge every day to be honest.
I wonder if you can get a high enough Evasion Rating to actually make your build viable without getting any %Evasion nodes.


In older builds I had 4-5 frenzy charges and yeah, awesome stuff. As it is, I'm happy with 3 to increase viper strike delivery speed.

I do indeed rely purely on gear and get acrobatics. My math was probably wonky but I decided that the benefit of getting evasion nodes as regards the chance-to-be-hit-overall formula that incorporates evasion, block and dodge was inferior to getting life, block chance and hunting down certain keystones.

I've never used the Endurance charges concept but I acknowledge the potential. Keep in mind that with the build I linked, the goal is to be hit almost never. You're never standing still other than to inflict 4 very quick viper strikes. At all times you're running around, whirling usually (hence the blood magic -- basically infinite whirls) to stay one step ahead of the game.

The block chance is roughly 55% or so, given I choose Perandus as my shield of choice.

So the reason I go A/PA/AD rather than endurance is the basic formula for not being hit. The moment I start thinking about damage reduction, I might as well throw in the towel and go armour/evasion hybrid (which with blind would be pretty damn good I should think) or really surrender and just go IR. This is just how I view the game, how I play. It is neither right nor wrong. It works for me.
https://linktr.ee/wjameschan -- everything I've ever done worth talking about, and even that is debatable.

Huh. My mace dude is now an actual cultist of Chayula. That's kinda wild.
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Reizoko wrote:


I don't just take frenzy charges for the Evasion Rating. The attackspeed boost is also nice. And while you don't have them up 100% of the time, it's still 80-90% and they are totally worth it in my opinion. Have you ever tried it? Ever since I tried it Frenzy is my single target skill of choice if possible. It's awesome :)

About your tree: So you purely rely on Evasion from your gear and get Acrobatics? I'm not a huge fan of Acrobatics (on range characters it's fine, but I wouldn't use it on melee characters) because it also negates the damage reduction from Endurance Charges. I would take 5 Endurance Charges (flat 25% damage reduction) over 30% Dodge every day to be honest.
I wonder if you can get a high enough Evasion Rating to actually make your build viable without getting any %Evasion nodes.


Endurance charges do still provide you with physical damage reduction when you take acrobatics.

My shield/acrobatics build, works with ~60 evasion. Skipped frenzy for more damage from heavy strike and for more endurance charges. My build at 79 and 4k life:

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgIAm40ILhmO7YPTfjWSTsjuDlb6I_Z0QfzF7_B312eg3Q1aSH8rh3Ys6TqzW6-QCqsLMHzWikp9FSA1hhjbcsNRR5LNg9u5zZ2qdPHMBqq4jb_igPxLIWCeuap_BbXrFN74rEfOcUCghxnUI-jWpHhsFgUt707dqJsmwdVgSzIJourGojIBeu8S4TBxshl07WEhS3jPehpVOkJh62SjelM26AHnOlKnMN-_FCCezVBH0iFXDdlhkc4ZLtSPud3yL-8O51JUSV8_
Last edited by prazius#5631 on Mar 12, 2013, 9:21:13 PM
Ghobe, you are onto something. Cherish it.
With all intelligence, insanity becomes the backdrop of the good man, and will sooner become what usurps the good man.

If you tell a truth that people don't want to hear, the truth will imprison you.

What's the point of knowing the world, if the world never talks back and others don't listen?
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prazius wrote:
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Reizoko wrote:


I don't just take frenzy charges for the Evasion Rating. The attackspeed boost is also nice. And while you don't have them up 100% of the time, it's still 80-90% and they are totally worth it in my opinion. Have you ever tried it? Ever since I tried it Frenzy is my single target skill of choice if possible. It's awesome :)

About your tree: So you purely rely on Evasion from your gear and get Acrobatics? I'm not a huge fan of Acrobatics (on range characters it's fine, but I wouldn't use it on melee characters) because it also negates the damage reduction from Endurance Charges. I would take 5 Endurance Charges (flat 25% damage reduction) over 30% Dodge every day to be honest.
I wonder if you can get a high enough Evasion Rating to actually make your build viable without getting any %Evasion nodes.


Endurance charges do still provide you with physical damage reduction when you take acrobatics.

My shield/acrobatics build, works with ~60 evasion. Skipped frenzy for more damage from heavy strike and for more endurance charges. My build at 79 and 4k life:

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgIAm40ILhmO7YPTfjWSTsjuDlb6I_Z0QfzF7_B312eg3Q1aSH8rh3Ys6TqzW6-QCqsLMHzWikp9FSA1hhjbcsNRR5LNg9u5zZ2qdPHMBqq4jb_igPxLIWCeuap_BbXrFN74rEfOcUCghxnUI-jWpHhsFgUt707dqJsmwdVgSzIJourGojIBeu8S4TBxshl07WEhS3jPehpVOkJh62SjelM26AHnOlKnMN-_FCCezVBH0iFXDdlhkc4ZLtSPud3yL-8O51JUSV8_


Much closer in philosophy to mine, but definitely more focused. :)
https://linktr.ee/wjameschan -- everything I've ever done worth talking about, and even that is debatable.

Huh. My mace dude is now an actual cultist of Chayula. That's kinda wild.
Changed my build a tiny little bit to get some more points to spend elsewhere (Damage nodes most likely). Also added Acrobatics since it seems to work with Endurance Charges (thanks for telling me). If I drop Frenzy charges and the Evasion/Armor nodes I still have 212% Evasion Rating and Acrobatics on top of that. Only 79 points used (safed almost 10).



With my current gear (which isn't that great really) I could probably get up to about 14k Evasion with this build. Roughly 4400 Evasion from gear + Grace. With 212% Evasion Rating that should end up at around 14k (haven't done the maths).

prazius: I can see why you would want to go to the Marauder tree. I thought about it aswell, but in the end I just don't want to spend that many points to get there. You spend 13 nodes in +10str just to get 10 'useful' nodes (15 if you finish the Marauder tree). That's a lot of 'wasted' notes in my opinion. But then again I don't want Blood Magic for my character, so our skill setups are probably different.
Last edited by Reizoko#4460 on Mar 12, 2013, 10:07:30 PM
14k Evasion + Blind should be pretty impressive.
https://linktr.ee/wjameschan -- everything I've ever done worth talking about, and even that is debatable.

Huh. My mace dude is now an actual cultist of Chayula. That's kinda wild.
The question is...just what IS 14k evasion? And I don't mean on the tooltip...because we don't know what generic mob tooltip generator's accuracy is ;p
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Ghobe wrote:
You need roughly 502x your opponent's accuracy to cap on evasion. I think I found the problem even without knowing what is possible at endgame or knowing mob accuracy amounts. Even if the formula wasn't cutting your evasion by 75%...it would still take 125.5x their accuracy, which is still a ludicrous notion.

Where on earth do these crazy numbers come from? Maybe everything has an accuracy of about 100 in your world...

The amount of evasion needed for 95% evade is (1093857151/18991489)^1.25*a^1.25, where a is the accuracy. That very weird coefficient in front can be reduced to an estimated fraction, giving a far more usable equation of
e = 158.7*a^1.25

That means that, in order to have 95% evasion against an accuracy rating on 630 (which in PvP is a level 65 with 250 dex), you'd need half a million evasion, which is almost 800 times the accuracy rating.

The real killer here is the ^0.8 in the evasion formula. Having that kind of operation without mirroring it on the opposing stat shows a huge bias.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.

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