[3.5] Occultist Vortex/Cold Snap ES/CI - Deathless and Safe Uber Elder and T16's

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Klaptafeltje wrote:

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Nergal_ wrote:

//Edit: Also,

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Vaal Discipline is perfect for extra energy shield

wouldn't "normal" Discipline be better here to provide more Energy Shield, since Vaal Discipline doesn't add any?

With vaal gems you get two skills for one gem. You get the normal skill which the vaal skill is based on and the vaal skill. So in this case you just activate Discipline and use the vaal skill as an panic skill. Small note the skills are separated so need to have different hotkeys. ( I'm aware for reserve skills you can activate and assign a different skill on said hotbar place.)

For the first question i'm also curious because i see this kind of set ups in different builds also. You see support gems cancel each other out.

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Slithid wrote:

As of 3.3, Vaal skill gems grant both the normal and Vaal version. You'll want to run Vaal Discipline in your blasphemy - enfeeble - enlighten set up, so that you can use Discipline with enlighten, and then keep Vaal Discipline on your bar, as this immediately starts our ES recharge and is effectively our health potion.

Thanks for your responses!
Yeah I really forgot that you can actually use both skills of a Vaal skill gem simultaneously (I actually do it with Vaal Cold Snap already, but wasn't aware that it would work with Discipline that way, starting ES regen immediately, like a HP flask).

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Slithid wrote:

We use Bonechill with Cold Snap to apply chill, and then hit the enemy with Vortex. With this, we can maximize Vortex's DoT damage, but use another relatively high DoT to also apply chill and use bonechill, to further Vortex's damage. Bonechill makes the enemy take more cold damage over time globally.

Ah ok thanks, that was a thought I had about after posting, since ColdSnap's DoT is lower than Vortex', so it actually makes sense to make ColdSnap the "softener" and go ham on Vortex' DoT damage. I just thought initially, that since Vortex is my main skill I'm using the most, and it "chills" in its description, that I would want to support it with Bonechill directly.

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Slithid wrote:

According to PoB, conc effect does work on the DoT DPS, but I believe we don't take it as Vortex is already a rather small skill, for map clear. You'd probably be able to take it for boss fights, but I'm not 100% if the other gems work better in a way PoB doesn't calc.

Ah yes, that's probably it, thank you. I must admit, I also saw ZiggyD swap in ConcentratedEffect to Vortex for Boss fights to boost the damage a bit further, but it seems that according to this guide here, it's not needed for general use and it also makes sense in terms of boosting Vortex' damage to use SwiftAffliction + ElementalFocus (2x direct dmg boost), instead of my Bonechill + ConcentratedEffect (1x direct dmg boost, 1x indirect and also even less AoE radius of Vortex ...)

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Slithid wrote:

Rime Gaze is a good starter option, but a helmet with higher ES and -9% to nearby enemy cold resists is better. Cold Snap does enough damage on a 4L for map clear, and is primarily used in bossing to buff Vortex.

Can -9% enemy cold res of a rare helm even out the 30% cold damage + 20% cold DoT damage of Rime Gaze?
Also, my Rime Gaze has currently 215 ES, what ranges are meant by "higher ES"? (for a reasonable price, like up to ~50c max, or selfcraft)

Thanks

//P.S. how do i link current items in a forum post? ;)

Are you guys bothering to apply EE to normal mobs? I am finding it very clunky to spread it and any one of the non-linked spells can't be cast on the run.

Playstyle wise, vaal snap, cold snap, triple weapon debuffs, +vortex for bosses? Trash just vortex maybe the odd snap? Or is there a smoother way to apply EE. Is EE even worth it for trash clearing if you don't have that weapon mod?

Also my other question from before, is there room to squueze in a second curse with whispers of doom, or do you lose too much with those 4 skill points.

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loonypt wrote:

How does Aspect of the Spider interact/stack with Temporal Chains? Should I use both at the same time, mana allowing? Is there an obvious advantage for one in favour of the other if I have to choose either?

I use temp chains/enfeeble with dual curse. 11.3k ES, unbuffed Vortex tooltip is 180k dps, and unless I messed up PoB, vortex dot is 650k vs shaper. Im making progress to 97, have done deathless Uber Atziri, Uber Elder, Shaper, Mastermind, etc. I have exalts to upgrade gear, but I havent sorted the direction to go, so they just sit in the stash while I grind maps. I dont have an incredibly relevant helm enchant, but increased temp chain effect at least affects me a bit. My tree varies a little, for more dot/dual curse.

https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/Wodahs/characters?characterName=MrsShivers

Just killed both shaper and uberelder with this build, thanks :D

I went with aspect of the spider + temp chains + enfeeble in a bit of a different gem setup, with arcane surge in the cold snap link.

Gear if any1 cares :

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Nergal_ wrote:

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Slithid wrote:

Rime Gaze is a good starter option, but a helmet with higher ES and -9% to nearby enemy cold resists is better. Cold Snap does enough damage on a 4L for map clear, and is primarily used in bossing to buff Vortex.

Can -9% enemy cold res of a rare helm even out the 30% cold damage + 20% cold DoT damage of Rime Gaze?
Also, my Rime Gaze has currently 215 ES, what ranges are meant by "higher ES"? (for a reasonable price, like up to ~50c max, or selfcraft)

Thanks

//P.S. how do i link current items in a forum post? ;)

From my understanding of resistances, -9% resistance is a huge damage modifier. While I can't say for sure if it's more than what Rime Gaze gives, the trade off is that you can fossil craft a Hubris Circlet with this mod and 300+ ES. That 100 more ES on your helmet actually ends up coming out to around 500 additional max ES.

You can link items by clicking in your character at the top of the forum, and as long as they're public, then clicking on the item in your loadout. This will place the item code into the forum post you're currently editing.

For example, I need to fossil craft a better helmet with the -9%, but this is what I'm currently using:

Hey Idarroc,
just wanted to thank you for this great build and the excellent guide.

Your POB link and the setup in general show clearly, how much thought and experience went into this guide. Really great!

I used a different (and also quite good) Cold Dot Occultist build before, but wasn't totally satisfied with it. So I switched to yours at around lvl 85.
I'm really glad I made this decision. Your build performs so well - even with bad gear (I'm playing selffound most of the time...). Defence, damage, easy and relaxed playstyle - it's all there.

As a new POE player (exiled from Diablo 3 like so many people here recently...) I also really appreciate the thorough and instructive crafting guide. Unfortunately I don't have the currency (and in some cases the recipes) to make full use of it yet, but as a POE noob I found it extremely helpful. I really learned a lot from your guide.

Big thanks again and keep up the excellent work! Really appreciated!

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Slithid wrote:

From my understanding of resistances, -9% resistance is a huge damage modifier. While I can't say for sure if it's more than what Rime Gaze gives, the trade off is that you can fossil craft a Hubris Circlet with this mod and 300+ ES. That 100 more ES on your helmet actually ends up coming out to around 500 additional max ES.

You can link items by clicking in your character at the top of the forum, and as long as they're public, then clicking on the item in your loadout. This will place the item code into the forum post you're currently editing.

For example, I need to fossil craft a better helmet with the -9%, but this is what I'm currently using:

Oh okay, i'll try that with a rare helm some time later then, thanks.

Sorry to bother you once again, but what would you advise about the armor? In the guide he says

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I would recommend just buying a 6 link ilvl 84 NORMAL vaal regalia, then crafting it.

But the plain and simple bare ilvl84 white bases i found were starting from 1 exalt and rise rapidly higher ... i don't have any exalt yet.

I'm also hesitating to try and 6 link my current armor i bought, in case i could lose my current 5L ...


Is there an "easy/fast/relatively-cheap" method to 6L an armor? I heard there are recipes and prophecies, but i didn't find any yet unfortunately. So that i could maybe buy just a 6sock one and 6L it myself ...

Thanks again ;)

Thanks for this guide! Im having lots of fun with this build!

Can u guys gimme some advice with what i should change or perfect in my gear?

I took this wand bcuz it has the extra cold dmg and i thought it would be more efficient to use this vs a mace with ~ 50% more dmg on full life. is there a difference in dmg output when i use the + spell dmg instead of the +40 elemental dmg of a mace?

as i read, some of the guys here use temporal chains with a solstice. should i switch to this or is the aspect of the spider enough?

ive got around 12k es, but i die sometimes. is there any fault i made in my gear?

thanks for any help and answers :)

I have a question about EE in this build. When I hover over bosses the nameplate shows that cold is resisted and it is vulnerable to fire. Lightning seems to switch back and forth. I have no sources of additional damage to spells on my gear or tree cold or other types. Is that just a display bug or what is wrong with it? My weapon triggers Frost Bomb, Orb of Storms and Storm Brand.

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Nergal_ wrote:

Sorry to bother you once again, but what would you advise about the armor? In the guide he says

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I would recommend just buying a 6 link ilvl 84 NORMAL vaal regalia, then crafting it.

But the plain and simple bare ilvl84 white bases i found were starting from 1 exalt and rise rapidly higher ... i don't have any exalt yet.

I'm also hesitating to try and 6 link my current armor i bought, in case i could lose my current 5L ...

Is there an "easy/fast/relatively-cheap" method to 6L an armor? I heard there are recipes and prophecies, but i didn't find any yet unfortunately. So that i could maybe buy just a 6sock one and 6L it myself ...

Thanks again ;)

Not a problem at all! Happy to help out.

It is possible to do almost all content on a Tabula Rasa if you can get one. My next suggestion would be looking into buying a corrupted chest with 6l, 2g4b. This is considerably cheaper, since it's corrupted and can't be modified, and literally any chest piece will have more defenses than Tabula.

For example, here's a search for 6L 4B2G chest pieces with at least 300 energy shield, most are around 50C: https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Betrayal/eJJOKrcL

It is important you buy it corrupted with 4 blue and 2 green sockets, since it costs vaal orbs to recolor corrupted chests. While this is a really low amount of ES compared to what you have, it's a cheap 6L. You can modify the minimum ES to sort by in the search filters. 400 ES chests are around 100-130c, and 500 is around 2ex

Unfortunately, there's no easy way to 6L besides Fated Connections prophecy.

Something like mine will run you 7-9ex (I managed to snag it for 6, but most with this much ES are closer to that range):