[3.5] Occultist Vortex/Cold Snap ES/CI - Deathless and Safe Uber Elder and T16's

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tanteMYN wrote:

hi guys,
i'm new to this subforum and need some help from experienced vortex players :)
i started this league as necro and after reaching lvl95 and 33/36 with 3 lowchallenges left i started to play occu vortex as an alt.
bought my gear for ~10 ex and i have ~10 left for upgrades.
but that's my problem. what do you guys think i should upgrade next. bought most of the gear with lvl 69, so i have some resistances highly overcapped due to skillnotes giving them to me now.

my gear is this:

all tips are appreciated :)

thx and gl!
myn

I would try to get the cooldown vortex enchantment on your helmet. Maybe the vortex damage or duration. But 1 of the 3 would be nice. For me the 30% cooldown works very well.

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judger91 wrote:

Well, wanted to try a new build, all I can say is that this build is like a paper compared with my Howa MS Jugg. It's strong dmg wise but cm on, currently I got 7k ES and I get rekt by random mobs while mapping... :(

Played both Howa Occultist and Vortex and invested mirror+ worth of currency for both.Had some 1k Aul kills on Howa last league and did a couple 600+ depth Auls on Vortex till i got bored of the grind.

The points i make rely on my experience with fighting delve bosses since it's the only cotent that can test those kind of builds.Uber elder got outscaled long ago by the introduced gear and you can't draw out any real conclusion out of it since most of the builds in game can do it.

Jugg is a bit tankier but you have to take into consideration a few things:
-Jugg has easy access to endurance charges and fortify whereas vortex has to use Vigilant Strike+The vigil combo for it or sacrifice some gem sockets for a movement setup and sacrifice even more for endurance charges(very annoying to incorporate).
-Howa(only the occultist variant) can get more Es due to int stacking and access to Abyss jewels which brings more es than normal jewels.For vortex abyss jewel are pretty bad.
-Dmg wise Howa has more potential in a vacuum but that's Only if you can stand still and attack.Realistically the dmg output of a howa build is bad compared to vortex.Vortex will deal more dmg in real hard fights.
-Howa has better recovery especially with the new energy leech gem but only as long as you can attack something.Outside of it you are very vulnerable.Vortex has great recovery all the time which is not situational.

I would say that they are very close in power.Jugg is tankier overall but it has to since you will take more damage due to being a melee while vortex will get hit way less and the dmg output will be much higher.

In the end, when it comes to deep delving, it boils down to 2 things:are you getting one shot and if not how fast can you recover till the next hit.Jugg Howa will be able to tank more damage due to the nature of ascendancy and item choices(incandescent) and will recover faster due to leeching which makes it the better bosser past a certain threshold(1k+ depth).The Howa occultist will be better for node to node courtesy to good curse effectiveness and better Es Pool and dmg mitigation.

I'd say either of the Howa/Vortex/Agony can take you far with similar investments.They are very close in power and it really depends on playstyle choices.


Overall i enjoy the Vortex build way more since it plays smoother and it's way better as a bosser untill a certain threshold where it gets outclassed by the jugg(1k+ delve).

Even little Mittens finally managed beat Uber elder after he managed to get Zana's quest line sorted out.
Too much stuff going on screen for this fight for newbie Mittens. Learned it's a bad idea running towards shaper as you'll end up eating his balls.
Beating this fight with less than 6k life/ES seems like something only experienced players should try

Key to spreading elder to 20 maps seems to be to prevent shaper taking over key junction maps and cutting off elder

In my confusing about the quest line I ended up fighting shaper 3 times. 2 more than is necessary. but can't complain. He was nice and drop dying sun flask and sosltice amulet. Uber drop crap


Maybe I'll go back now to my abandoned hybrid Jugg as I now have the curr to fully gear it and see how it does

Will EE work with this wand or does the flat +cold to spells mess it up? 1ex down the drain?

Just respeced this character so be nice still work in progress.

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Zweet wrote:

Will EE work with this wand or does the flat +cold to spells mess it up? 1ex down the drain?

Just respeced this character so be nice still work in progress.

Unfortunately your assumption is correct, that wand will not work with Elemental Equilibrium. Per the wiki, all damage types are applied at the same time. https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Elemental_Equilibrium

So if you have EE and use a spell that applies cold damage it will proc fire and lightning weakness in affected enemies. If you use a skill that applies lightning damage while wielding a wand with "+ cold damage to spells" it will only proc fire weakness.

For this build you accept the fact that enemies will have increased cold resistance for the first tick or two when you use vortex. However you can assume that only very strong enemies will survive vortex for more than a tick or two. Those high end enemies will get hit by the vortex cold damage and proc increased cold resist, but then a lightning skill that hits frequently (storm brand, orb of storms) will change the EE proc to be cold weakness. Damage over time effects do not affect the EE proc, so after vortex's initial hit, the next damage type takes effect.

Basically your lighting skills hit multiple times after cast, forcing cold weakness for the majority of an encounter, while vortex and cold snap hit once and then apply a DoT effect that takes advantage of EE and your multiple hit lightning skills.

TL:DR get another weapon and make sure none of your items have "+ cold damage to spells"

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Unfortunately your assumption is correct, that wand will not work with Elemental Equilibrium. Per the wiki, all damage types are applied at the same time. https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Elemental_Equilibrium

So if you have EE and use a spell that applies cold damage it will proc fire and lightning weakness in affected enemies. If you use a skill that applies lightning damage while wielding a wand with "+ cold damage to spells" it will only proc fire weakness.

For this build you accept the fact that enemies will have increased cold resistance for the first tick or two when you use vortex. However you can assume that only very strong enemies will survive vortex for more than a tick or two. Those high end enemies will get hit by the vortex cold damage and proc increased cold resist, but then a lightning skill that hits frequently (storm brand, orb of storms) will change the EE proc to be cold weakness. Damage over time effects do not affect the EE proc, so after vortex's initial hit, the next damage type takes effect.

Basically your lighting skills hit multiple times after cast, forcing cold weakness for the majority of an encounter, while vortex and cold snap hit once and then apply a DoT effect that takes advantage of EE and your multiple hit lightning skills.

TL:DR get another weapon and make sure none of your items have "+ cold damage to spells"

Thank you for the very detailed answer. I will look for something else,but as you stated it does still "work" but far from optimal. I have an annulment i could use but not sure if 1/6 is good odds...if i remove the cold dmg OT its pretty much a rip.

Thanks again.

Hey guys, im have a question:

Im understand that i cant use "add cold damage to spells", but i have gloves (its on my open profile) which have "add cold damage to attacks". So can i use them or i break my future EE?

Since im on PS4, here terrible AH, and buying items its pain in a$$.

Looking for a build combining the tankiness of this one with the clear speed and fun of winter orb

Any leads?

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Mach1ne_id wrote:

Hey guys, im have a question:

Im understand that i cant use "add cold damage to spells", but i have gloves (its on my open profile) which have "add cold damage to attacks". So can i use them or i break my future EE?

Since im on PS4, here terrible AH, and buying items its pain in a$$.

Yep "cold damage to attacks" is fine. Since it's on your gloves it's a global mod, which means it will affect all attack gems. But if you look at this build's skills, you'll see that they all have "spell" tags, not "attack" tags in the first line of info.

can someone link me an updated tree for this build ? i messed it up and i'm seeing tons of versions. Thank you