Dr. Jordan B. Peterson

he is the very same as the transgender-guys he claims to oppose.
from the way he throws around the term "postmodernism" it is very clear he hasnt read or understood any of it.

why is he always acting offended or suprised when he is actively and voluntarily participating in the media-circus and gender-debattes? and not just participating but lashing out and blatantly polarizing?

he isnt teaching psychology - he is preaching to his students a way of life. wrong seminar - thats philosophy-class.
in my country anyone who would try to study psychology because of their own personal issues gets denied access right away.

There are only two genders.

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IMSilver wrote:

There are only two genders.

hermaphrodites do exist.
they are well documented in all of nature and also for all ages, places and cultures of human kind.

however, they are a very very very rare occurrence (within human kind). too rare for a part of a generation to raise such a ruckus and justify a "movement".

it is also only in the "modern" civilizations that these hermaphrodites are being marginalized and detested. the navaho for example worship hermaphrodites, other cultures are rather ambivalent towards them, "what of it?".
(the same also holds true for homosexuality: it is only the western and arabic cultures that detest it. broadly speaking, our loathing of homosexuality is abnormal - in most other times and places homosexuality was no big deal)

a professor of a human science like peterson, as well as those supporting transgenderism who claim to be "intellectuals" should be familiar with what is basic knowledge to any anthropologist. what books/ journals/ studies are these people reading?
gender and its norms or deviances, its different perceptions by different cultures have been studied for a century now.


whats appalling about this whole "debate" is the stupidity and sheer lack of knowledge of facts on both sides.

"

IMSilver wrote:

There are only two genders.

...which exist on either end of a line that some folks find themselves somewhere in the middle of, rather than firmly on one end or the other.

I understand why some folks get riled on this issue. For most cis folks, gender just doesn't matter - it's a nonissue in their lives, they don't like that other folks are getting pushy and Weird about a total nonissue, and a lot of them are already predisposed to hate anything new anyways, so it turns into one of those Damn Dirty Liberal problems again.

But try to remember, folks - for people whose sense of self doesn't line up neatly with their physical configuration, gender is not an ignorable nonissue. Yes, some folks are just attention-seeking posers. Some folks, however, have to deal with the fact that there's no possible way to fix what they feel is wrong with them and at the least are hoping for a bit of commiseration here and there.

Dr. Peterson telling such folks to fly and go fuck themselves because he doesn't want to have to use words he doesn't like is incredibly disrespectful. Not everyone with gender issues is a poser looking for attention. Not everyone with gender issues is a "DID YOU JUST ASSUME MY GENDER" asshat. Dr. Peterson can make whatever decisions he likes as regarding his own language.

That doesn't mean everyone else has to agree with him.

"

1453R wrote:

which exist on either end of a line that some folks find themselves somewhere in the middle of, rather than firmly on one end or the other.

please be more precise here.
what, where, exactly is this line? is it a genetic thing? neurological? societal/ cultural?
if there was such a line...how does it happen that someone might find oneself somewhere on it that doesnt concur with the biological gender?

Anyone who wants me to call them a xir can go fuck off

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PaoloPinkel wrote:

"

1453R wrote:

which exist on either end of a line that some folks find themselves somewhere in the middle of, rather than firmly on one end or the other.

please be more precise here.
what, where, exactly is this line? is it a genetic thing? neurological? societal/ cultural?
if there was such a line...how does it happen that someone might find oneself somewhere on it that doesnt concur with the biological gender?

I don't have scientific studies to quote to you. I can, however, say this - almost everything else about the human mind exists in a state of compromise between two points. So much of the human brain and the mind that inhabits it exists on spectrums of some sort or another - is it so hard to believe that gender might be one as well?

I don't have the links handy, but I recall seeing some recent studies that suggested folks with acute dysphoria have physiologically different brains than normal folks of their biological gender - a trans man would have a brain more comparable to male ones than female ones despite their female body, for example. Trans men tended to have male brains, trans women tended to have brains caught somewhere between male and female, physiologically.

The brain is an immensely complex construction, and imprecision is both its greatest strength and the source of its millions of hang-ups. In this day and age, when information is exploding from people's ears and ideas are spreading more freely than ever, more and more folks who might've felt too isolated to come forward with their feelings - or who didn't have enough information to so much as properly identify what their feelings might even be - can figure out more about what might be going on in their heads and find other folks to band with, even if only online.

Is the 'gender spectrum' biological, neurological, or sociological? Yes. Pick one - it contributes. Very little in this world has a single clean, concise answer outside the hard sciences, and even biology is 'firm' at best, not really hard. Not in this sense, anyways.

Besides. In the end, does it matter? I like the me I am now more than I liked the me that had no idea what was up with my brain. Do I suffer from acute dysphoria? No. Do I 'suffer', if we're using that term, from occasional bouts of what I cannot describe as anything but dysphoria, and an increasingly constant sense that the hardware doesn't match the software? Yeah. Does that make me 'trans'-whatever or mean I'm entitled to all kinds of weirdity from the government? Nah. I use the term 'nonbinary' for a reason, but use of that term is my choice to make, ne?

It's my inalienable right as a human being to decide who I am, is it not? If you don't like the decision I arrive at you don't have to associate with me, but it remains my right to make that decision. Dr. Peterson does not agree, and as such I don't particularly care to associate with Dr. Peterson and his ideas on gender, even if his ideas on language are otherwise worthy of serious consideration.

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1453R wrote:

I can, however, say this - almost everything else about the human mind exists in a state of compromise between two points. So much of the human brain and the mind that inhabits it exists on spectrums of some sort or another - is it so hard to believe that gender might be one as well?

sure. but that is not what "transgender"-people are maintaining in the end. they very much want a label. and a label is a fixture.
are we talking about an actual spectrum - or just a dotted line where anyone can pick her/his/its dot or add one at random?

"

1453R wrote:

I don't have the links handy, but I recall seeing some recent studies that suggested folks with acute dysphoria have physiologically different brains than normal folks of their biological gender -

please lets not talk about brains. just this: a homo sapiens 300000 years ago had the same brain as einstein had.

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1453R wrote:

Is the 'gender spectrum' biological, neurological, or sociological? Yes. Pick one - it contributes. Very little in this world has a single clean, concise answer outside the hard sciences, and even biology is 'firm' at best, not really hard. Not in this sense, anyways.

we can say for certain that there are only two biological genders. this is hardcoded in human kinds DNA.
to doubt biological gender is like doubting how many fingers a human being has.
there are statistically very rare hermaphrodites who are a combination of both. but then again: they are not "somewhere" in some spectrum - they simply have the biological features of both genders.
we can say for certain that EVERY culture or civilization known has differentiated between male OR female. that doesnt mean that a male cant have female traits or vice versa or that there are tales of morphism.

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1453R wrote:

It's my inalienable right as a human being to decide who I am, is it not?

you nailed it.
the gender-movement is the successor of those who fought and abolished aristocracy.
just as gender, aristocracy was in its days a birthright and an anthropological distinction.
gender is a scandal indeed, as is all of genetics and biology and VERYTHING that is decided before we can make decisions for ourselves. let me chose what i want to be born as!

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1453R wrote:

it remains my right to make that decision.

really sure about that? what about your name? do you identify with your name? these days names have no meaning anymore, really, as in indicating ones social status or even ancestry. so you could pick whatever name sounds cool to.
before we have all this debates about gender....we should just get rid of names, an easy thing to accomplish, in comparism.

there are two forms of freedom: freedom OF and the freedom TO. they can only co-exist in compromise. thats what you americans never understood, not even your otherwise smart founding fathers.

exhaust your freedom TO. but in doing so you will transgress other peoples FREEDOM OF and they will react.

You're mistaking biological sex for gender identity. There are, indeed, two biological sexes, and occasionally individuals with a blend of features from both. This is where the typical angry reactionary junk comes from: "do you have a dick? Then you're a guy. Do you have a pussy? Then you're a girl. There's no take-a-third-option, there's no in-between unless you got either BOTH or NEITHER, there's none of this weirdo confusion you keep spewing! You're born as a gender, just GIT OVER IT! Accept that you're gay/a crossdresser/deviant, but you ain't a woman if you were born with a dick and you ain't a man if you were born with a pussy!"

Clearly, I don't subscribe to gender identity being interchangeable with biological sex. Are they related? Well I certainly hope so. Are they identical and 100% in lockstep? I don't believe so.

You sass me on names, aristocracy, and the like - but no, I don't actually care for my given birth name overmuch. It's a name, I use it because the law tells me to, but I prefer my Net handles (not 1453R in this case, just to make it clear) in general conversation with my bros. Many cultures have previously made a point of taking adult/coming-of-age names that the individual either chooses or is awarded based on their deeds to date, rather than simply assigning one moniker at birth that the individual is then stuck with forever.

"Biological reality", as one deeply conservative individual put it whilst calling me an aberrant mental defective, does not rule the species. In our sole case, we can act against the basest instincts and constructions of raw biology. Our minds are influenced by biology, absolutely they are, but the mere existence of modern civilization proves that we can beat the meat.

As for 'FREEDOM OF' and 'FREEDOM TO'? What does my decision to make of my identity what I desire impinge of your freedoms? What 'FREEDOM OF' am I abrogating by exercising my 'FREEDOM TO' choose my own identity rather than passively accept whatever identity the world feels like handing me? You yourself stated that males and females can exhibit traits from the other side - what is that, if not a spectrum of identity/expression? If a biological male possesses enough feminine/female traits, when is that male allowed to rightly start wondering if he's not fully or properly male, the way society expects him to be because of the physical configuration of his body?

What freedoms are my demented, selfish Yankee desire to not be a beer-guzzling football-chewing emotionally stunted jock denying you?

"

1453R wrote:

"

IMSilver wrote:

There are only two genders.

...which exist on either end of a line that some folks find themselves somewhere in the middle of, rather than firmly on one end or the other.

I understand why some folks get riled on this issue. For most cis folks, gender just doesn't matter - it's a nonissue in their lives, they don't like that other folks are getting pushy and Weird about a total nonissue, and a lot of them are already predisposed to hate anything new anyways, so it turns into one of those Damn Dirty Liberal problems again.

But try to remember, folks - for people whose sense of self doesn't line up neatly with their physical configuration, gender is not an ignorable nonissue. Yes, some folks are just attention-seeking posers. Some folks, however, have to deal with the fact that there's no possible way to fix what they feel is wrong with them and at the least are hoping for a bit of commiseration here and there.

Dr. Peterson telling such folks to fly and go fuck themselves because he doesn't want to have to use words he doesn't like is incredibly disrespectful. Not everyone with gender issues is a poser looking for attention. Not everyone with gender issues is a "DID YOU JUST ASSUME MY GENDER" asshat. Dr. Peterson can make whatever decisions he likes as regarding his own language.

That doesn't mean everyone else has to agree with him.

1: This is based on fantasy not fact and as such cannot be taken seriously.

2: Exactly they are your problems pls stop bothering other ppl with it,as for the riled up part yeah
at some point it gets annoying it is not so much the subject but more the constant whining that
gets obnoxious.

3: I don't care about your problems they are your problems,having said that i mean you no ill will
either.

4: Both a lie and a contradiction.
First of all he says no such thing to trans ppl.
Second: You first say its disrespectfull if he does not use one of the made up bullshit words to
adress these ppl and then you say he can use whatever words he likes,so which is it?

5: Meaningless statement as this holds true for any person and any opnion, having said that i take
his opinion a hell of a lot more serious then that of others.