XP loss on death, why?

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frenzul wrote:

Yeah I'm not sure why this post is even a thing.

Why play if there is zero risk?

Where did I ask for zero risk, hm? I've been playing computer games since the '70s, I know what risk is and how to deal with it. But losing XP pisses me off, it cheapens my playing experience, it's not something that I find fun and I don't think it makes the game in general better or that it makes GGG more money. I can find no positive effects from having players lose five hours due to being one-shot. None, whatsoever.

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Artaniz wrote:

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DGTLDaemon wrote:

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frenzul wrote:

Yeah I'm not sure why this post is even a thing.

Why play if there is zero risk?

No one is talking about "zero risk". The problem I personally have with PoE's XP penalty system is that it gives you zero room for error, and makes every mistake irrecoverable. There are other ways to handle this. For instance, in Diablo 2 you could recover 75% of your lost XP if you made it back to your corpse without dying again. A similar system is used in the Dark Souls series: if you die, your souls (equivalent of XP in that game) drop to the ground, and you have to travel back to the spot where you died from the last bonfire to recover them. If you die again, that's it, you've lost all your progress to the next level, but at least you're given one chance to correct your mistake. In PoE, you're given none. And please don't tell me that D2 and DS1-3 are/were "casual" games :D

Also if you played those games you should have learned to ADAPT , you know whats coming in PoE , dont run maps with elemental weakness , and added damage plus crit mods if you dont want to get one shot.

But that's just it, if it's this "easy" to circumvent the mechanic, why have it at all, why should you actively look for maps without those mods? This just reminds me of how people are "fishing" for Greater Rifts that suits them in Diablo 3, and doing this 10-15 times is not uncommon and is a mechanic that is quite frankly stupid and brings nothing of value to the game. Avoiding the mods you mention on maps doesn't, either.

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Or make a hero that clears from 3 screens away. What you are saying is i want to use my playstyle ( that obviously gets you killed sometimes) but i dont want to do any of the things that many others do and are SUCCESSFUL at doing to mitigate my XP loss.

What makes PoE stick out is the vast amount of freedom the game provides, and the biggest selling point is the amount of builds you can play, There are over 1000 passive nodes, why should most of these be made completely irrelevant in favour of a few cookie-cutter builds that can cope with a mechanic that isn't actually needed?

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Vresiberba wrote:

a) You don't actually die, you get sent to non-HC which makes the XP loss nonsensical. HC needs more of a death penalty, non-HC less.

This is untrue.

People who play hardcore (consistently) RARELY play softcore, so dying in HC is essentially the equivalent of the character being deleted. Further, over 70% of the playerbase plays in temp leagues, so out of the VERY small number of HC players who would be willing to play SC, a temp-league death goes to perma-SC: the equivalent of deleting a character. The perma-HC playerbase is practically non-existent, meaning the majority of HC players are temp-league players.

In other words, for probably less than 1% of the community, dying in HC means the character's basically deleted, so dying in HC doesn't need a more significant penalty.

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b) I don't "shrug" if I die, dying in a computer game for me is an indication of failure, it pisses me off just as much even if the XP penalty were there or not.

The XP penalty is often the only reason SC players get upset, because they've lost time trying to level the character. You are a rare breed who would be upset without the xp penalty.

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Serleth wrote:

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Vresiberba wrote:

a) You don't actually die, you get sent to non-HC which makes the XP loss nonsensical. HC needs more of a death penalty, non-HC less.

This is untrue.

No. You said that the Hardcore characters die and that is untrue because, well, they don't. You get to keep the character, all that he's wearing and every thing he's been collecting through its life. You lose literally... nothing. That's awful in terms of the permanent death that is usually associated with the game concept called Hardcore, it's patently un-hardcore, even less so than Blizzard's version which is pretty weak as well where you get to keep the entire stash as well as every single Paragon point earned.

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Serleth wrote:

In other words, for probably less than 1% of the community, dying in HC means the character's basically deleted, so dying in HC doesn't need a more significant penalty.

There just isn't enough of a gap between the penalty of constantly dying in Normal and dying once in Hardcore, the former is basically the end of its life just as much as it of for the latter. If dying in Hardcore means the character's basically deleted, then not progressing in Normal means the same thing as most people who reaches a level they can't progress anymore re-roll a new character.

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Serleth wrote:

The XP penalty is often the only reason SC players get upset, because they've lost time trying to level the character. You are a rare breed who would be upset without the xp penalty.

You still lose things when dying in Path of Exile other than losing your XP. You lose your momentum, your progress on the map, your stored charges, one portal out of your six which means you can't zerg your way through content indefinitely and more importantly, time. No-one playing this game enjoys dying and no-one thinks it's fun losing XP that took eight hours to collect.

It might be frustrating, and I felt the exact same way before, but what you have to understand about softcore is simply that, unless you are pushing for 100, death does not matter. Gaining a level past 90 does very little difference to the effectiveness of your character unless you are going to use a 10 exalt jewel. The more you level, the less the next level matters.

What you need to do to enjoy the game more is stop thinking about levels/exp and start thinking about currency per hour and gear. That will improve your character more than exp especially after 90.

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Ardziv wrote:

The more you level, the less the next level matters.

Obviously, but that doesn't mean I can't use another 10 passive points to the benefit of my build.

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Ardziv wrote:

What you need to do to enjoy the game more is stop thinking about levels/exp and start thinking about currency per hour and gear. That will improve your character more than exp especially after 90.

Still, seeing a progress bar going backwards is not fun.

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Vresiberba wrote:

You said that the Hardcore characters die and that is untrue because, well, they don't.

As I said:

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Serleth wrote:

People who play hardcore (consistently) RARELY play softcore, so dying in HC is essentially the equivalent of the character being deleted.

Moving on.

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Vresiberba wrote:

There just isn't enough of a gap between the penalty of constantly dying in Normal and dying once in Hardcore, the former is basically the end of its life just as much as it of for the latter. If dying in Hardcore means the character's basically deleted, then not progressing in Normal means the same thing as most people who reaches a level they can't progress anymore re-roll a new character.

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Vresiberba wrote:

No-one playing this game enjoys dying and no-one thinks it's fun losing XP that took eight hours to collect.

I.e., we were arguing punishment, not fun.

___________

I'm not going to debate with a brick wall that's stalwartly defending their point now just because, rather than with any real opposition.

Your entire series of "arguments" here boils down to "I don't like this. It's not fun. Change it."


Well, being punished in general ISN'T FUN. That isn't the point.

Anyway, I don't feel like breaking out a box of crayons for this so, enjoy. Or not, as it were.

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Serleth wrote:

Anyway, I don't feel like breaking out a box of crayons for this

There we go, died again. Result; 11 hours lost. This is such fucking bullshit!

I completely support no XP loss/Less xp loss idea. In fact i felt like a complete shit losing 55% the other day but who cares GGG wont change anything about it so.. Q.Q i quess lol


Oh by the way

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Recent Updates to the Patch Notes

Character Balance
The experience penalty at very high levels has been increased. This predominantly affects characters at level 95 and above.