XP loss on death, why?

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Shazamarang wrote:

Most of the time the people who complain about the experience penalty are people who have never levelled a character past the low to mid 90's.

That may have to do with the fact that those who die at level ~ level 90 regularly, either does so for a day and then quit very, very quickly, or does not care one iota, which is exactly my point.

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Shazamarang wrote:

Dying before level 90 is like 10 minutes of tier 10 maps max, and even less if you're running higher tiers.

You say this, right after explaining that ~level 90 players are the ones complaining about this. If it would take 10 minutes to claw back the XP lost ~level 90, do you honestly think this thread would exist. I leave out the question mark, on purpose.

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Shazamarang wrote:

Like a few people have said, it's because there needs to be some risk, which in turn should dissuade people from playing glass cannons, though that doesn't work at all.

That would be fine and all, if playing a glass-cannon build was something you're not supposed to do. Alas, it is, all in accordance to GGG's build philosophies, perfectly fine to play glass cannon builds.

It's this, quite severe inconsistency that bothers me. This might have been accepted in 1999, with Diablo 2. Today, it just isn't. This is right up there with Reflect Damage; a mechanic that punishes you the better you get, is - moronic, full stop!

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Shazamarang wrote:

People have and will always complain that the game is the problem and not their glass characters

That's not it at all! A bad mechanic is a bad mechanic, end of story. I have played Diablo 3 a lot, a lot, and I lost my first Hardcore Hero to a mechanic that shouldn't have been in the game; Elite troops right at the entrance. My Hero died before I could react. 200 hours... gone.

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Shazamarang wrote:

People say that it's a DPS or a gear check because if you're dying faster than you can gain experience, it means that your character is shit.

Let's just follow your, quite frankly moronic and elitist posit, what the hell does it matter to the game developers if someone's character is "shit"? You do understand how many "shit" characters there are in existence even before a death results in XP loss, yes? So it doesn't quite compute, now does it.

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Shazamarang wrote:

Your character can then be made not-shit by investing in better gear in most cases.

Oh, pleis, mastah, teech meh yo wais, ay wanna be ass cool laik yo!

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Shazamarang wrote:

Also, don't say you're losing "Losing five hours on one, single death", even if it is a hyperbole, that's a bit too extreme for anyone that isn't pushing for 100.

Ugh...

Getting to 100 is not something that should be for just any player. Most players stop somewhere between 90 and 94 I would assume (if they can get to 90 at all). Getting past that takes dedication and a decent build that doesn't die often. It could ofcourse be discussed if the xp penalty is a good way of dealing with it but afaik there are very few other ways to do it other than increasing the xp needed 100 times.

If you encounter the inability to get past a level you need to check your build or the way you play and work on that. Or do like most others. Use that character for farming and reroll a new character that might be better at it/better at doing other stuff like boss encounters.

Eventually you get the experience enough to balance clear speed and survivability enough to the point where you can try to go past your highest current level.

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Shazamarang wrote:

Most of the time the people who complain about the experience penalty are people who have never levelled a character past the low to mid 90's. Which is funny because that's the point when levelling actually gets slow, with or without a penalty. Dying before level 90 is like 10 minutes of tier 10 maps max, and even less if you're running higher tiers.

Why is that funny? It's completely understandable: when players in their early 90's hit the wall of losing more than half an hour of playtime to a single death, that's the moment they stop leveling that character. Some of them feel bad about it and start complaining on the forum.

You realize that yours is a very hardcore attitude to gaming? There are many players, like me, who play just 2-3 hours a day, and not even every day, don't play the meta and therefore just stop leveling around lvl 90-91. Because half an hour, or more, is A LOT OF TIME! And losing that time is demoralizing.

So, to the op: I get what you mean, but don't hope for a chance in exp penalty, because it will not happen. Just try to be content with the situation that - for you - lvl 90 is the max. It's the moment you should start thinking about a new char.

Without the exp penalty, death would have next to no meaning.

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Vresiberba wrote:

I really do not understand this mechanic, I didn't in Diablo 2 and I don't in Path of Exile. Why is the game you're playing for fun punishing you for, not facerolling content, but actually giving a shit and trying? Why should a game, one that's played for fun, entice you to try, even if it's out of your league, to try and beat it, when failing to beat it punishes you, telling you to not do it again.

This. Makes. No. Sense!

Yeah, you're right, this opinion makes no sense.

a) In HC, you die, you're done. SC needs some form of punishment to correlate.
b) It incentivizes you to give a shit, rather than just throwing yourself into a pack of mobs and shrugging if you die.
c) You'd probably get super bored if there was no risk at all.

Just dont die.

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Vresiberba wrote:

I really do not understand this mechanic, I didn't in Diablo 2 and I don't in Path of Exile. Why is the game you're playing for fun punishing you for, not facerolling content, but actually giving a shit and trying? Why should a game, one that's played for fun, entice you to try, even if it's out of your league, to try and beat it, when failing to beat it punishes you, telling you to not do it again.

This. Makes. No. Sense!

If you remove exp penalty, it doesn't matter if you die anymore.
Softcore alone is very forgiving anyway.

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Vresiberba wrote:

What "check" it is or not is of precisely no concern, if it's a bad design.

if you die with any sort of regularity then the thing that is badly designed is your character, go learn how to be better at the game rather than complaining the game is broken because youre doing it wrong maybe?


sometimes the game is badly designed, sometimes there are problems with the game. Thing is in this case that many people are playing a massive variety of builds and they can run alched red maps all day 6 days a week for a month and never even die once. Its not 1 build, its not 1 guy, its not a small handful of builds or guys, a vast amount of people are playing a huge variety of builds and basically never dying. Maybe once every month or 2 they might die playing the highest tiers of maps.


no risk = no reward.


The game is designed for people who wish to be challenged, and then find a way to overcome the challenge and feel a sense of accomplishment from that. Its not designed for people who just want to turn up and get all the rewards without having to try or to learn anything. Thats not bad design, it may be more serious design that requires more thought and effort than you are looking to invest, thats your call.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

The game is designed for people who wish to be challenged, and then find a way to overcome the challenge and feel a sense of accomplishment from that.

The problem is, the XP penalty achieves exactly the opposite effect: instead of encouraging players to challenge themselves by running dangerous, high-tier content, it forces them to grind safe low-tier crap until they reach their target level. How many people would risk leveling in T16 maps? That's right, very few, because one missed burrow attack from the Minotaur means instant death to vast majority of builds, especially if the map has damage/crit mods on it. That's one of the reasons why you see endgame builds with mirror gear and millions of DPS running hundreds and thousands of boring yellow or low-tier red maps (the other reason being that it's often more economically viable than farming high-tier content).

For me personally, the XP penalty takes all fun out of the game until I'm at my target level, because it forces me into an ultra-careful, quasi-HC playstyle where I'd rather skip dangerous content (such as bad combinations of map mods, or abysses/breaches in maps with bad mods) than attempt it and risk dying. Remember Mathil's famous simulation of hardcore experience?

https://clips.twitch.tv/SpoopySlickGaurNomNom

Well, you can call me a casual softcore scrub, but I don't enjoy playing like that at all.

I am torn between it. I understand it and I do not, at the same time.

I understand it makes you unable to faceroll tiers through death spams of tiers you SHOULDN'T be in, getting more exp than you should.

But on the other hand, in T12+, map mods are random, and there's many RNG 1 shot map rolls that are out of your control, that punish for no reason, even though you're geared for it even.

So...