Donald Trump and US politics

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soneka101 wrote:

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Please tell me more about Jewish terrorist attacks in the 1930s.

So, i know a village that belonged upto 80% to the banks, one night the bankers came and evicted a farmer from his loaned property, it was the night of merry christmas thing, and off they casted the farmers family into the cold snow-cutting wind. Two are required for marriage.

I have to agree with Charan on this one, one of my bro´s tenants is a "türkey" and he doesn´t shy away from admitting to be a Nazi, i guess he´s muslim too, funnily builds garden-fences for a living.
Gotta love humanity ^^

Talking about Trump-politics, don´t know what to say, there´s not much to it just advertising his own heir to the next throne in 8years ?

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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ChanBalam wrote:

When ISIS drives vehicles into crowds killing people, Trump calls them terrorists and shouts about wiping them out. When neo nazis and white supremacists do so, Trump condemns "hatred and violence on many sides". Neo nazis and white supremacists are Americas oldest and longest standing terrorists and Dumb Donald refuses to condemn them for their stated and visible hatred. He is either too chicken shit to name them as terrorists or too supportive of their views to do so.

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pneuma wrote:

My two least favorite groups, authoritarian leftists and white supremacists, are now actively killing each other in the street.

I guess someone should stop them, if anyone wants to volunteer.

My sentiments echo pneuma's here. In greater detail: https://plus.google.com/100205712168557799694/posts/Ugz3FsK_zNkJPQf-ci54AaABAg

I technically agree with Trump's assessment that both sides are dangerous and were violent in Charlottesville. I do not, however, agree with his statement from a strategic perspective. I'm not aware of any leftists using deadly force in the protests, compared to mowing leftists down with a damn car. Maybe a brief mention of "multiple sides" but the vehicular terrorism should have been the clear focus. Sad!

What happened was terrible, and obviously a crime. What type of crime is another matter and TBD.

If there was a premeditated plan to run over protestors - yes, it is terrorism. If it was a reaction to something else, it could still be murder, but perhaps not terrorism. I haven't seen video or much info on it yet, so I'll reserve judgement until it comes out.

As for Deadly force, no. Bags of feces, balloons filled with urine, tear gas and assorted other methods yes.

Sessions announced a federal investigation into it. If it is a full investigation, then I suspect Terry McAuliffe will not be happy with what in uncovers. The ACLU is reporting that the Charlottesville police were told to stand down, which allowed the violence to escalate.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ACLUVA/status/896386562484731904

While purely speculative - some of the early chatter on this seems to indicate an intentional effort to draw violence. Hard to say atm, because people claiming to be LEO aren't giving out badge numbers with their commentary.

In any case, this should give people on both sides a wake up call that violence is not the answer to responding to a dissenting opinion. Now, if we can only get MSM, elected leaders and celebrities to stop calling for violence.

James Alex Fields Jr.


I don't know which group he belongs to, but I think it will be hard for him to convince anyone that what he did wasn't premeditated.

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soneka101 wrote:

I think it will be hard for him to convince anyone that what he did wasn't premeditated.

I don't think the argument is a hard one to make. "I was in my car, I was scared, people started hitting my car with bats. I freaked out and slammed on the gas -- fight or flight and I was just so scared."

I think he's gonna get the book thrown at him to make an example out of him, though.

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pneuma wrote:

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soneka101 wrote:

I think it will be hard for him to convince anyone that what he did wasn't premeditated.

I don't think the argument is a hard one to make. "I was in my car, I was scared, people started hitting my car with bats. I freaked out and slammed on the gas -- fight or flight and I was just so scared."

I think he's gonna get the book thrown at him to make an example out of him, though.

He can make that argument, he might even get acquitted(I'm not sure if Charlottesville has the law that protect drivers in case they run over protesters), but can anyone honestly believe him?

White supremacist ran over a crowd of anti-white supremacists and it wasn't premeditated. I don't believe that the same way that I don't believe OJ's bullshit about the "real killer".

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鬼殺し wrote:

I have to say, in the face of such evidence of malicious intent I do wonder if your attempts to excuse the behaviour away as "defensive" or "instinctive" make you less objective in this than you'd like to appear. That would be...hmm, not good.

I agree, and anyone who doesn't? Watch the videos- all of them that we have available.

The guy basically drove from blocks away with the intent of plowing through a crowd of people. There was no imminent threat; he wasn't being attacked. He hit the back of a car that he couldn't have possibly known was there.

This was a premeditated terrorist attack.

It's fucking great that with every terrorist attack since 9/11, both sides can't condemn it fast enough. But this time? Such careful trepidation from the Right. Oh, we don't wanna be too hasty, maybe his widdle self fewt scawed.

Fuck all of you that are defending this, for even a moment. A person died, and dozens are injured because of a fucking racist statue that was erected in the 1960's as a reaction to the civil rights movement.

Great hill to die on.

It's impossible that someone is racist and has a black friend at the same time am I right?

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https://youtu.be/1EURwLmYFP0?t=2m3s

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soneka101 wrote:

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pneuma wrote:

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soneka101 wrote:

I think it will be hard for him to convince anyone that what he did wasn't premeditated.

I don't think the argument is a hard one to make. "I was in my car, I was scared, people started hitting my car with bats. I freaked out and slammed on the gas -- fight or flight and I was just so scared."

I think he's gonna get the book thrown at him to make an example out of him, though.

He can make that argument, he might even get acquitted(I'm not sure if Charlottesville has the law that protect drivers in case they run over protesters), but can anyone honestly believe him?

White supremacist ran over a crowd of anti-white supremacists and it wasn't premeditated. I don't believe that the same way that I don't believe OJ's bullshit about the "real killer".

The only video I have seen so far (not linking to it as it is a bit gruesome) of the actual crash happening doesn't seem to show the driver pinned in, but looks like he accelerated into a crowd ahead of him. It is tough to say for sure because the driver/vehicle is behind another vehicle in the initial footage. Other than the collision damage on the front windshield of the vehicle, there don't appear to be obvious dents on the sides or back of the vehicle from bats/sticks. There might be minor ones, and the vehicle may have picked up some hits after driving into the crowd.

From the video I had seen (not the same one shot by Brenna Gilmore, the people hit by the driver were predominantly of the same race as the driver, although a few were not. Hopefully there were a lot more people filming this so that the jury doesn't have any questions as to what really happened.

edit - the video I had seen when I posted this was not the one by Brennan Gimore, as it was shot from the oncoming view of the vehicle.

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鬼殺し wrote:

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pneuma wrote:

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soneka101 wrote:

I think it will be hard for him to convince anyone that what he did wasn't premeditated.

I don't think the argument is a hard one to make. "I was in my car, I was scared, people started hitting my car with bats. I freaked out and slammed on the gas -- fight or flight and I was just so scared."

I think he's gonna get the book thrown at him to make an example out of him, though.

From nbc:

Brennan Gilmore, a 37-year-old who works for a start up, shot the footage and said he heard tires squealing before he saw a car build up speed and ram the crowd. It hit a number of people before plowing into the bumper of another car.

"It was very clearly intentional," Gilmore told NBC News. "From the far end of the street it accelerated, slowed down right before the crowd and then slammed on the gas through the crowd sending bodies flying. And then it reversed back into the street dragging bodies and clothes."

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I have to say, in the face of such evidence of malicious intent I do wonder if your attempts to excuse the behaviour away as "defensive" or "instinctive" make you less objective in this than you'd like to appear. That would be...hmm, not good.

I hadn't seen the camerman's account of events, it seems to jibe with the video, although the camera doesn't pan up from the ground until the car is already accelerating.

Unfortunately, there are numerous precedents of drivers panicking in crowds, and from the first hand and second accounts I have heard from people trapped in some protests/marches, there are a lot of people banging on vehicles, shouting, pinning cars in etc. In some cases, people were using weapons to break windows and try to harm the drivers.

While it doesn't excuse the driver's actions - and they may very well be murder and terrorism - the police should have had the streets either closed off, the marchers off the street and the crowd better controlled. They can handle crowds like this when they know ahead of time, which they did. I've seen first hand a city that pretended it couldn't handle a crowd of less than 10,000 turn around and handle a crowd of over a million - when the federal government cracked down on them and essentially told them to do their jobs or the entire police department would no longer be legal.

We already know they were given stand down orders. This doesn't excuse the driver at all. It is just more bad policing. They were supposed to serve and protect, instead they stood by, watched and waited.

Edit - just saw Brennan's video (the one I saw before was from the oncoming view) and there aren't swear words strong enough for what I think about him.

His car was clear of any attackers, and the street was clear around him and it looks like he just floored it to attempt to hit people as hard as he could. I think the investigators need to dig a bit longer to see if they can find any comments made that the driver went to the rally hoping to hurt someone. If so, they can charge him with First degree murder, instead of the current 2nd degree murder charge. They still might be able to add terrorism to the list.

edit 2 - Airbags on the vehicle didn't deploy. It could just be a failure, but if they were disabled, and they can show it, it might show intent for murder one charges.