Donald Trump and US politics

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faerwin wrote:

Also, climate change is a fact.

Just because we don't know the exact formulas to be used to determine how the climate change doesn't mean it's not a fact.

To give you an example with gravity.

Gravity is a theory, but it's a fact that there's a force at work that prevents us from being launched into space.

About Climate changes, there are many scientist who believe it is simply a cycle like we have so many on Earth. Like the day/night we can observe or the four seasons over the years. Some longer cycle such as the ocean currents (El Nino) highly affect the climate and the weather, those cycle are harder to observe because they last over many years. we realized our Climate is the same, the planet as we know it (fact) has seen many frozen age and many global warming and those cycles were in place wayyyyyyy before the Man started walking the Earth.

Also other fact, over the years the Co2 per volume changed, like in the last century we were around 180 to 200 unity of Co2 per m3 and now we are about to hit 300 and 320 per same volume. Some scientist claim co2 is the reason the climates are changing and that we are the cause of it. But here are some other facts, during the prehistoric era, Earth was having a 7000 unity of CO2 per same volume and the planet wasn't dying on contrary it was a vaste amount of jungle all over the place. Second things, Volcano and other natural disasters produce way more CO2 and the human race, we are so little and what we produce is of no value there. Just a volcano explosion produce more CO2 and the human race in a matter of few minutes, worth mentionning there are many Volcanos in permanent erruptions all over the planet in the abyss of the Ocean.

Nobody sane disputes climate change. The question is whether it's influenced by us, by how much, whether it is reversible, how much money should we put into it (also counting opportunity cost etc)... especially the last part is entirely unsolved, there's no real economic model of climate change.

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Xavderion wrote:

Nobody sane disputes climate change. The question is whether it's influenced by us, by how much, whether it is reversible, how much money should we put into it (also counting opportunity cost etc)... especially the last part is entirely unsolved, there's no real economic model of climate change.

well many scientist think it's part of a bigger cycle that could be lasting for over thousands of years, and that we have as much chance to stop than stoping the day and night cycle.

In other news, the Chinese Dog Meat Festival has begun in Yulin.

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diablofdb wrote:

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faerwin wrote:

Also, climate change is a fact.

Just because we don't know the exact formulas to be used to determine how the climate change doesn't mean it's not a fact.

To give you an example with gravity.

Gravity is a theory, but it's a fact that there's a force at work that prevents us from being launched into space.

About Climate changes, there are many scientist who believe it is simply a cycle like we have so many on Earth. Like the day/night we can observe or the four seasons over the years. Some longer cycle such as the ocean currents (El Nino) highly affect the climate and the weather, those cycle are harder to observe because they last over many years. we realized our Climate is the same, the planet as we know it (fact) has seen many frozen age and many global warming and those cycles were in place wayyyyyyy before the Man started walking the Earth.

Also other fact, over the years the Co2 per volume changed, like in the last century we were around 180 to 200 unity of Co2 per m3 and now we are about to hit 300 and 320 per same volume. Some scientist claim co2 is the reason the climates are changing and that we are the cause of it. But here are some other facts, during the prehistoric era, Earth was having a 7000 unity of CO2 per same volume and the planet wasn't dying on contrary it was a vaste amount of jungle all over the place. Second things, Volcano and other natural disasters produce way more CO2 and the human race, we are so little and what we produce is of no value there. Just a volcano explosion produce more CO2 and the human race in a matter of few minutes, worth mentionning there are many Volcanos in permanent erruptions all over the planet in the abyss of the Ocean.

Desertification and damaged ecosystem is not a cycle for example. To stop those while utilizing resources on the earth, we are making decisions to take actions. We better not freeze this process at least.

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finisterre wrote:

Desertification and damaged ecosystem is not a cycle for example. To stop those while utilizing resources on the earth, we are making decisions to take actions. We better not freeze this process at least.[/quote]

There are many other naturals disasters that constently happen and cause as much damage as we do.

Saying "climate change is a fact" or "all sane people acknowledge climate change" in the context of political discussion is kind of like saying "dog poop is real" or "only insane people deny the existence of dog poop"... in the context of political discussion. I mean, yes, it's real. But it is in reality astonishingly trivial, and it is incoherent bordering on deranged to pretend it carries the importance of a more serious topic such as, say, interstate speed limits... much less a top tier issue.

Let me provide a recent example: in a recently locked thread, Crackmonster opens with a link to a ThinkProgress article on Tangier, Virginia, a multi-year town that is sinking into Chesapeake Bay. ThinkProgress claims that "Trump denies the key reason Tangier Island is doomed" when "the president dismissed the primary cause, rising seas" caused by climate change. The article blasts Tangier's Mayor Eskridge for being a Trump fan and presumably influenced by a recent talk with the Donald: "According to Eskridge, it’s just erosion that is destroying Tangier."

When I fact-checked this, I found that sea levels rose 1.7mm per year as a global average from 1901-2010, and 3.2mm yearly 1993-2010 (this implies ~1.4mm 1901-1993). The total loss of elevation for the island range from 530mm annual average (1850-2013) to 1320mm.

3.2/530. "Key reason." "Primary cause."

For the people of Tangier, a community that is legitimately threatened by rising sea levels, the often-discussed climate issue is roughly 200 times less important than the erosion issue, which is rarely discussed. We would serve Tangier roughly 200 times better with erosion alarmism. It certainly seems to me that Eskridge is a sensible mayor, focusing on the real issue — that is, the primary cause.

"Oh, but it'll get worse," the climate change alarmists claim. And yes, I do see a trend there. In a century, erosion won't be 1/200th of Tangier's problem. If they can put cut erosion to 10% of current levels while sea level rise rate doubles, then climate change might be a full eighth of the problem by that time. Hey, that's approaching relevance.

The point is that the Tangier story is a microcosm for the overall climate change narrative. The public has been propagandized into believing a truly miniscule issue is of grave, end-times importance. 1000 years from now, I don't know, maybe. But we've so many bigger fish to fry right now. Even the Left should be focused on bigger things like military interventionism and securing against election fraud. Those things are real issues. Climate change isn't. To the climate change alarmists, I won't tell you the sky isn't falling, but I will tell you that, if it is, you aren't seeing it because you're distracted by bullshit.

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finisterre wrote:

Desertification and damaged ecosystem is not a cycle for example. To stop those while utilizing resources on the earth, we are making decisions to take actions. We better not freeze this process at least.

The Sahara would like a word with you:

https://www.livescience.com/4180-sahara-desert-lush-populated.html

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At the end of the last Ice Age, the Sahara Desert was just as dry and uninviting as it is today. But sandwiched between two periods of extreme dryness were a few millennia of plentiful rainfall and lush vegetation.

During these few thousand years, prehistoric humans left the congested Nile Valley and established settlements around rain pools, green valleys, and rivers.

Those prehistoric humans must've had one helluva carbon footprint! =^[.]^=

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diablofdb wrote:

Second things, Volcano and other natural disasters produce way more CO2 and the human race, we are so little and what we produce is of no value there.

source: epa.gov


http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/science/human-contribution-to-gw-faq.html

Fact: humans contribute to the aggravation of the climate change.
Debatable: How much they do contribute.

Fact: Regardless of the impact of humans on the climate change, if a climate change will cause an important rise of the sea level, humans should try everything they can to stop it, even if it's later discovered that finally, humans had no impact on the change of climate.



It's retarded, really. It's like looking at a huge meteor coming right for us and having people arguing that since it's not human caused, we shouldn't worry about it. Doesn't matter if it's human caused or not, if it happens, WE ARE STILL FUCKED!