Death Penalties

Grinding Gear Games , The game looks GREAT !!! I mean it really looks AMAZING and the fact that your not developers from the US. tells me this wont be commercialized and or streamlined like many AAA titles in the states. Keep on creating i will support and spread the word to hardcore PC Gamers.

"

rich777 wrote:

Grinding Gear Games , The game looks GREAT !!! I mean it really looks AMAZING and the fact that your not developers from the US. tells me this wont be commercialized and or streamlined like many AAA titles in the states. Keep on creating i will support and spread the word to hardcore PC Gamers.

you can surely choose better thread next time dude :)

anyway, I think death penalties should exist but in my opinion they need to be bigger when you die on weak monsters and if you die on bosses/strong mobs it doesn't cost you too much

i mean, it can actually build the atmosphere- if your char dies on weak mobs it means you can't fight, you are not a true warrior blah blah blah, and you loose quite a lot bcuz you should've survived.
On the other hand, when you die on strong monsters, it's like: "you fought with honor and died in hard fight". That means you deserve respect bcuz you took the challenge. So you loose not too much.

I've played all sorts of different online RPGs: Everquest, WoW, Rift, Age of Conan, Diablo II (hardcore), Diablo, Runescape, etc. So I've had tons of experience with different kinds of death penalties.

By far the most fun I've had was with permanent death and experience loss upon death.

Death penalties like temporary debuffs or durability loss has always been lame to me. Such death penalties ultimately lead me to boredom every single time.

Furthermore, I think solid death penalties increase competition and encourage people to become better players. I also believe that it's human nature to become more excited when the stakes are higher; and I think there is a greater sense of accomplishment after "beating" or leveling up in a difficult game versus doing the same in an easy game. It's akin to legitimately beating a difficult Nintendo game versus beating the same game with Game Genie.

Experience, equipment and/or currency loss as a penalty for dying combines awkwardly with a F2P model that encourages players to enter the game in five minutes. However, PoE is marketed as "cut-throat," and it is a spiritual successor to Diablo 2; consequently, it is likely that the player-base is accustomed to these penalties. Nonetheless, the noncommittal, F2P model occupies a crowded genre (e.g., Diablo 3, Grim Dawn) that has a cross-over audience (i.e., active MMO players), so PoE maybe be a secondary game for some players. Tangible loss as a result of dying results in grinding, and it may deter players. For example, experience loss might force a player to grind an area again before progressing forward to “catch up,” and that can be unpleasant in a F2P game that is trying to immerse you.

If targeting a broader audience is a goal, accessibility and competition should be balanced. In particular, the “cut-throat” looting system should be considered in combination with the death penalty system. It is important to recognize how multiple game systems might stack and change the user experience. Free-for-all (and iterations thereof) looting bucks current trends, and it requires a change in playstyle. The system could result in missed opportunities to acquire items, and it could lead to death of either the greedy player or the unfortunate PUG party member. Consequently, competitive looting and loss-based death penalties may result in “bad” grinding. The bigger picture becomes more competitive, more “cut-throat,” and that is appropriate – assuming that is the intention; for example, Eve Online prides itself in being truly hardcore in every way, and it is embraced as such. My point is that the level of competition must be explicit, and it must be considered at all levels of play. Death penalty can enhance, offset or unbalance how competitive the game is.

Personally, I want to play your game. I want to play your game cautiously, for I want to avoid death; however, if I do die, especially in the context of technical problems, losing something results in me, at some point, having to play the game differently to regain what I lost. I neither want to be coddled nor babysat, but there is a fine line between “competitive,” “hardcore,” and “fuck this.” Let the tangible loss be optional (you choose to be hardcore).

While it may be inappropriate for PoE, I like Guild Wars' death penalty system (health and mana debuffs until you acquire more experience). It reduces your immediate strength under the assumption that you have killed members of the group that killed you, and if you die to a boss, it is a sign that you are unprepared to face her or him (assuming that they will regenerate health while your debuff remains). However, with the inclusion of town portal mechanics, it would reward reckless, glass-canon play. In the end, GW's model is excellent in a controlled, arena-style PvP environment, but it may be too “soft” for PoE, for death is dynamic in Guild Wars.

Each difficulty is designed to require different playstyles. For example, the first difficulty can be played through straight without needing to replay any area and death penalties are mild. At higher difficulties, grinding becomes mandatory for survival and death penalties become painful.

"

tpapp157 wrote:

Each difficulty is designed to require different playstyles. For example, the first difficulty can be played through straight without needing to replay any area and death penalties are mild. At higher difficulties, grinding becomes mandatory for survival and death penalties become painful.

that's how it actually works in POE or is it just your idea?

"

darklord wrote:

"

tpapp157 wrote:

Each difficulty is designed to require different playstyles. For example, the first difficulty can be played through straight without needing to replay any area and death penalties are mild. At higher difficulties, grinding becomes mandatory for survival and death penalties become painful.

that's how it actually works in POE or is it just your idea?

That's how it currently works.

Are there any decisions taken yet about Death Penalties ?

I've seen a lot of great ideas, but no feedback from the Dev team, would be nice to know their thoughts now after 42 pages :p

I've had a lot of experience with a lot of death penalties just as many guys that have posted before me, but because you guys are looking for a large number of feedback to narrow it down I will chip in.

1. Having to run to get my body in a ghost form never seemed like a death penalty, why? Well... if it's an environment where monsters have re-spawned in the areas which lead to my point of death, I could just simply skip over them without any hassle. Did not seem like much of a penalty to me. So that's a no in my book.

2. Having to run to get my body in a living form created a huge problem for me due to the fact that I had to fight through re-spawned minions or uncleared minions... or simply ganking PVP players. That can get very frustrating and cause me to hit ALT+F4 to just get it over with. That's definitely a no.

3. Having 1 random item drop from your dying character... well, that was just an insane idea. Weeks, sometimes months of trying to get that item... all to waste. Death is part of gaming, wasting your time should not be. It's a hell of a no.

4. Loss of gold... did not mind it as much, but it depended on a game. In some games gold meant a lot and it was as bad as losing an item. Luckily we don't have to worry about gold in this game... thank god! So this option is out of window.

5. Loss of exp... well, that kind of depends really. If it's not very significant, I don't mind. Yeah, if you do it enough times it could hurt, but then if you do it enough times... you should probably rest and play a bit later when your mind is on track. However, nothing frustrated me more than being around lvl 98 and dying because of lag or stupid mistake and losing about a week worth of experience because it's so damn hard to attain at those levels. I can't recall right now... but I played an MMO that allowed you to gain your lost experience back at an increased rate. So it would still be a penalty, but it would be very temporary. I think that would be a very good option.

6. Having a stat penalty after death that would stack or reset its count every time you die... well, that's just simply silly. As Apocalypse23x mentioned in his post... if I couldn't kill something the first time, what makes you think I can kill it with a stat penalty/death sickness? Can't play the game in this case.... so it's a no.

7. Going back to experience thing.... A few people have mentioned about being rewarded for not dying. Another system that I have never played with, but just thought of... would be having a reward and a penalty all in one system. So, if a player goes a certain amount of EXP without dying, their EXP gain rate should increase by... let's say 1%, then 2% and max out maybe at 10% extra gain? So they're at 110%? And if they die even once, it resets back to 100%. After that a death penalty would apply. So the initial penalty is like a freebie, but you would lose the bonus. Just an example. If they die, there are 3 options: Option #1: They would lose a certain amount of EXP, and would have to gain it back.... but some players might not like it. Option #2: They would lose a certain amount of EXP, and would be able to gain it back at a much increased rate of gain (say... 150%?). Option #3: They would die and not lose any exp, but for a certain amount of time or amount of experience they would gain exp at a reduced rate. For this option, the rate should be capped at let's say.... 80%. So every time they die, they go down 5% for a certain time duration or certain amount of exp that has to be gained.


My vote goes to #7 on my list... and there are 3 options to test out.

I think Death should be scary.
Such as lose some percentage of experience (depends on how many experience we will have in game, however not a big percentage, with no chance of returning it back?)
And dropping items when you die (not all of them and maybe none of them (how about 10% chance you drop one equiped item, 5% for two, 3% for three ...)

Anyway dont make it like it doesnt matter.
I hate it when I see in game that I don't lose anything when I die (like Wow and such games).
It really takes out the fun of playing it.