Death Penalties

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Wispo wrote:

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jebroni wrote:

er . . . people bitching about 10% penalty, LOL.

Maybe because those people, differently to those who begs ggg for more punishment, HAVE A LIFE and don't are willing to waste their days on a game

Best excuse for being bad at a game :3

Another system (that would follow the idea of an exp penalty that acts after the death as opposed to retroactively) while still cutting out 10% of exp would be to cut 50% off for the next 20% of a level. The issue with having it go backwards is that it's kind of hard to alter your build if you can't move forward in the quest line to get access to respec books or simply gain levels to try to find a new direction with your skill points. I /guess/ you could try just farming a million orbs of regret or rolling a new character, but I feel those two latter options are a bit extreme. Literal stagnation of a character's leveling can be utterly demoralizing.

As for repeated deaths in sequence, I would imagine it would refresh the duration. Not the perfect solution but at least you're always moving forward.

After about ten play sessions without being able to level up from 50 to 51 because of the experience penalty, I quit playing and went back to Diablo 3. It just wasn't fun anymore. This is not a job for me. I shouldn't have to spend hours and hours refining a build and crawling for better items to gain just one level. Perhaps I'll come back if and when the death system is changed, but for now, my time is better spent elsewhere.

well, even if this topic was started quite some time ago ... since it popped up at the front page, i wanted to add my opinion:

from the perspective of a casual Player, who plays selffound exclusively, i simply do NOT like the xp-punishment on death and imo it is totally unnecessary in non-hardcore.

this game is already challenging enough, if you don´t use trading and don´t buy all the stuff, that lets you rape the content. loosing xp on death and therefore loosing the hard earned progress is just frustrating

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themddevice wrote:

Another system (that would follow the idea of an exp penalty that acts after the death as opposed to retroactively) while still cutting out 10% of exp would be to cut 50% off for the next 20% of a level.

At first I thought: This is a really bad idea, as it might discourage players from pushing on because they'd now be playing under a penalty.
You know, instead of having already suffered the penalty, they'd now have to wade through molasses when carrying on..

But then I thought: What is the penalty expired after, say 24 hours? Then you'd be discouraged to go on now - but if you come back to the game later "all would be forgiven".
Additional deaths could then stack the exp subject to penalty (next 20% initially, then after dying again immediately next 40%) and refresh the 24 hour (subject to change) wait for forgiveness.
While we're at it maken an achievement "Forgiveness" that one gains once they have circumvented exp penalty by waiting 24 hours. :)

This would keep the death penalty the same for full time Players who probably desire consequences for suboptimal play. It might even be an opportunity to make it more hardcore because the save fallback "exp can't drop below 0% of the current level" could be dropped if desired.
At the same time it would soften up the brick wall casuals can hit when learing this game.

Read the next few posts for variations of: "If GGG caters to casuals this game will go down the drain, and I'll quit"

Your idea doesn't hold water, because as you gain levels it becomes more and more profitable to just wait it out for a day. The biggest penalty is that you pay for your death in a very literal way; maps cost money. Any attempt to mitigate this cost is making the grind to 100 far easier.

1-50lvl = 50%
50-80lvl = 25%
80-90lvl = 10%
90-100lvl = 5%

If someone dies multiple times per level something is wrong with their build. We have poe.wiki, forum sections with gameplay/builds help, youtube videos etc. If someone doesn't want to invest few hours and study the game... just play something else.

An MMO I used to work on actually had two different types of XP.
We had 'Fame' which was your standard 1-60 level kind of thing. But we also had 'PEP' which stands for Personal Experience Points, and ranged from level 1-5. You got most of your fame from questing, and pep from killing mobs (to avoid people grinding all the way to lvl 60, but thats a different matter)

Per PEP level, the main three attributes got boosted a bit, which in our game in turn boosted values like running speed, attack speed, life,..
The thing was, when you died, you lost 1 level of PEP, and getting to PEP lvl 5 for example wasn't easy.

In this way, instead of punishing players who died by making them lose XP or durability of their items, we actually rewarded players who stayed alive. Many people and reviewers liked this approach.

I think something like this could work for PoE, not that I'm asking for it to be implemented, I can live with the current penalties, this is just "what would be a good alternative" type of thing.

I'm just spitting out some random values and stats here but:

Level 0: No bonus
Level 1: +1% Movement Speed, +1% Attack/Cast Speed, +1% Phys/Elemental Damage
Level 2: +2% to Armour/Evasion/Energy Shield and Life, Mana
Level 3: +3% Movement Speed, +3% Attack/Cast Speed, +3% Phys/Elemental Damage
Level 4: +4% to Armour/Evasion/Energy Shield and Life, Mana
Level 5: +5% Movement Speed, +5% Attack/Cast speed, +5% Phys/Elemental Damage

Or whatever, just a slight bonus your can get that's nice to have, and sucks to lose, but doesn't halt your character progress like dying over and over sometimes does.

Dying could mean losing one bonus level in Normal and Cruel, and 2 in Merciless for example.

Instead of losing exp* how about lose stats/get cursed type of deal for xxx long (ive seen it on some games)

When you die you get Exiled Wraeclast

Curse lasts xxx based on your level?
Some ideas what this could do... (maybe at random chance for different curses?)

All your gems lose xx levels till the curse is gone
You cannot regen hp, es or mana
You lose 25% of your str, dex and int
Cannot use 1 random item you have on (just block it out like that one helm i can't remember the name of that doesn't let you use body armor)
All your res are 0%
You have -40 movespeed (can you even move with -40?? lol)
Your exp gain is cut by 25%
Cannot open a map
Has elemetal weakness
Has enfeable

I don't know some of these seem ok and if you die you surely wont be going back into combat for a bit (and won't be able to kill whatever killed you by just wearing it down)

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Antnee wrote:

Your idea doesn't hold water, because as you gain levels it becomes more and more profitable to just wait it out for a day. The biggest penalty is that you pay for your death in a very literal way; maps cost money. Any attempt to mitigate this cost is making the grind to 100 far easier.

Thanks for the constructive post.
You're right of course, it reduces the total number of maps needed to reach level 100 as long as the player doesn't care about how long it takes. And it does make it easier (as in achievable for casuals, because they can get there eventually).

That was entirely the point however. Make level 100 doable for everyone - why not?

On the other hand this mechanic wouldn't reduce the time needed to reach level 100 at all (not talking about play time but real time passing).
The guy who wants to be the first level 100 in a new league can't wait a day every time he dies. He couldn't abuse the waiting system even if it was only a one hour wait instead of 24 hours. He'll need the same amount of maps he would need under the current death penalty, because he neeps to keep pushing.

What I proposed is aimed at making the game less punishing for casuals while retaining the challenges in the competitive environment.
Does my proposition fail at that? Am I missing something?