Death Penalties

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Rhydberg wrote:
Death penalties are difficult in a game like this. In most games, dying is annoying because it kicks you back an arbitrary length of gameplay and you have to do stuff over again. However, ARPGs are designed in such a way as to throw you straight back into the action right where you were very quickly, so this doesn't work.

Currently, I think the experience penalty does it's job - it makes death undesirable, meaning people have a motivation to build something other than all-out damage and throw their infinitely spawning self at every challenge until it eventually runs out of hitpoints as bodies stack up around it.

The only problem with an experience loss is...well, it's dull. It's functional, but uninteresting.

Perhaps the answer lies in adding incentive to staying alive, rather than incentive to not die. The difference is subtle, yet meaningful.

An interesting way to handle it that keeps with the game's current design philosophy would be to give, for example, a stacking buff of potentially infinite duration that stacks with every monster killed, and gives an almost infinitesimal boost to experience gained/item drop rate/both/whatever, capped at a value that seems sensible. If you die, you lose the buff and have to regain your stacks.

This still imposes a pseudo-experience-penalty (The potential experience you could have gained if you still had your stackable buff) without taking away what a player has "earned", which usually only serves to upset a player. It would also make death irritating, and undesirable.

It is possible that if the buff gave an experience bonus, some tweaking of current experience rates would be required in order to give a progression speed that is similar to the current rate for an "average" player. I'm not sure how much information GGG has on how often players die, and at which levels. Sounds like something that needs an Excel spreadsheet.



this + infinity
It would good if there's a special slot for a special orb that reduces or nullifies the exp loss.

The main reason for death penalties is to warn players to play with caution, but under some circumstances, even with much cautiousness, u still die due to some imba group mobs,or affix.

Those who said these % are nothing, try hitting 7X, or 8X. I suggest u to play hardcore if you think the current death punishment aren't heavy enough.
Last edited by MrPeanut on Feb 16, 2013, 2:35:31 PM
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Laellu wrote:
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Xeriel wrote:

I don't die too often but when I do it's really obnoxious to be set back in experience, if a player is dying because his x or y is too weak, the game shouldn't further punish the player by making his leveling slower so he can't reach the next skill without going back a few zones and grinding it out.


Ok, so, what you are saying is.....no matter how weak your character or strategy is, the game should not give you feedback to indicate such shortcomings. Instead, any character of any quality should progress as fast as any other character?

Being unprepared brings undesired results. This is quite essential to any game of value.


The game punishes your poor build and equipment by killing you... If your build is that bad you hit a wall and simply cant kill that enemy.

Why does it also have to knock you back several hours?

Answer: It doesnt, not in default. There literally is no reason whatsoever.

People arguing against it just want the game to suck for everyone who isnt them because they are children who dont realise how funding and economy works for a F2P game.

If you really want to punish people who die and portal rush bosses until theyre dead, make it so the bosses health refills out of combat or something.

Whoa i just made it so your shitty build and gear setup cant steam roll the game, but you also arent knocked back several hours for NO reason just because you hit a GEAR check that is the main point of this game.

So under my idea to beat the boss youre stuck on you will need either a) to respec some of your points with orbs/respec points, b) farm or trade for gear upgrades, or c) party with people, or d) reroll.


Holy wow look at that, a fair system that doesnt drive people away from the game in frustrated droves!

Fanboys and elitists RUIN games. Period.
Last edited by faytless on Feb 16, 2013, 9:01:42 PM
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eckart wrote:
to me default death penalties are fine and fair, coming from a dw duelist @endgame with 2k hp. this game does not make a lot of sense without a death penalty that hurts at least a bit. only thing stupid is when it happens because of desyncs/high ping/fps spikes, but who am i to cry about this when people play hc with the same problem.


I dont think anyone is complaining about a death penalty in default.

We are saying there shouldnt be one that does nothing but waste your time for no reason at all.

Death penalty is fine, look at D2. One that sets you back over an hour just because you got 1 shot by a melee ranged LMP fireball in Act 3? Nothing will make people quit the game faster in the long term, imo.
The XP penalty is really getting on my nerves and is preventing my marauder from progressing in level, but that's because at least 15 of my last 20 deaths have been due to desynch.

I'd much rather see them fix the desynch than remove the penalty though.
WTF XP Penalty is just SUX...

This feature is like: make impossible lvl up if you char is not much strong...

Win = XP Gain.. when you is almost lvl up, if start die this fuc**** feature can make you xp bar start at 0 (like happen to me minutes ago)....

Why this feature? Damm....
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Xeriel wrote:
Seriously, what is the point of punishing people for dying in default league? Diablo 2 is fair

If the D2 death penalty were introduced people would lose all their equipment when the instance goes down (I can already taste the tears), losing a lot more than a few hours of grinding in most cases.

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Xeriel wrote:
dark souls is fair

I don't understand why Dark Souls keeps getting compared to this game. Dying in Souls games is fundamentally different to dying in Diablo-likes. In Dark Souls you have to really stuff up to lose more than one humanity from a death, and in some cases suiciding to go hollow and avoid invasions is an acceptable strategy. Heck, it even has a forced death if you don't sequence-break. In general play you only really want to avoid death as it's an inconvenience.

It's a good thing that death is light in Dark Souls as it makes the (sort of) world PvP more enticing, but Path of Exile is fundamentally different in the way deaths are handled. Note that there is no hardcore option in Dark Souls, a deathless run was considered mechanically impossible by the developers (although an oversight allows you to skip the forced death). This is also one of the reasons I feel the current Cutthroat ideas just don't work.


Now if you want to look at a game that has silly death penalties there's Demon Souls. Dying in a world in body form darkens the world tendency, making all enemies there stronger. It also forces you into soul form which has substantially reduced max HP, and returning to body form requires you to either defeat an area boss or use a consumable item.
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25six wrote:
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mibuwolf wrote:

Dying needs to have a penalty that hurts.


Why?

Why does dying in default league need to have a penalty that hurts?

I'm one of the people that can't stand the death penalty in default league. I literally do not understand why people want a penalty to dying when playing the game on the basic level, and by that I mean default league.

If players want a penalty system isn't that what hardcore is all about?



Don't nearly all video games have a death penalty? You die and you lose progress and have to do it all again. Same thing applies here. You die and you have to earn back some of what you gained previously.

Did you complain in games like God of War or Halo when you had to repeat tough sections of the game because you kept dieing?
Standard Forever
Losing the instance would be an interested death penalty.
IGN: Iolar
The penalties are just fine. Whine whine. I thought you lost xp even when you were at 0%.. Go grind in a safe area until you level, the go do the risky stuff when you have leveled. The penality is in fact, no penalty at all. Tho I symphatize a little bit with melees.

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