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I don't like people who exaggerate someone's position to make theirs seem stronger. What was stated was clear: There are people who aren't gutting their characters over defensive priority. If you disagree, still. Explain why.
Because I play the game; you don't. What level are you? Are you skipping Hp nodes? I would love to play with you so I can laugh when you get 1 shot by something like a vaal rock. So please, add me up on friends list and I'll level my duelist with you, and laugh my ass off when you get 1 shot with one of these amazing theory-crafted builds you came up with.
You will look just like this lvl 68 the last time I did Vaal. He bragged all the way up the pyramid about his armor/block chance, etc. But he never mentioned life. First Vaal rock hit him, and he seriously got 1 shot. I almost fell out of my chair laughing. All that time grinding felshrine to get 1 shot by a vaal rock cause he had no HP.
That would be you, Deceptionist. But see, you dont have these experiences; you dont have crap to back your arguements but vague references to people that may or may not exist.
So please, level up to about 45 with one of these magical builds and we will go leveling up thru the rest of the game so that I can watch you get 1 shot by something.
If I was black and this was 1998... I would say...
"You got served..."
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Posted byStinkFingeron Feb 18, 2013, 6:28:37 PM
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As far as my ideas on how to fix this issue, one idea is that life nodes are reduced severely, such that they give you only a 2% boost or something. The 2 percent is a number I picked somewhat arbitrarily, but really I think the life nodes are about that much more powerful than the other nodes. If it is decreased in such an extreme way, it would make the defensive nodes more attractive as an alternative to higher life, as well as making the damage nodes more attractive as a way of killing things faster. It will remove the thing that happens now where getting a damage node instead of a life node means you have to fight maps that are X levels below what you otherwise could handle.
Another idea is to keep life nodes at the same power level, but make it much more difficult to get a bunch of them. Spreading them out and hiding them behind other parts of the skill tree would help this out a lot. Right now, there are a ton of life nodes that fairly easy to get to, considering how much benefit they give you. If nodes were hidden behind things like 3 nodes of 1 handed weapon damage, or alternating 8% mana, 8% life parts of the tree, it would make the player have to think a lot more about which life nodes they wanted to get, as opposed to getting all of them.
A final idea is to change the way the life nodes interact with items. I nearly doubled my life total from something like 400 to 750 by switching from random items to a quiver and 2 rings that had substantial +__ to maximum life. I am getting even more life from these the more life nodes I get. This seems to me to be way too much compared to other stuff. Even otherwise decent seeming things like +10-20 fire damage or + 5-60 lightning damage pale in strength compared to this. Stuff like +10 life on kill is really bad compared to a 100+ boost in total life. This may be mitigated if they decreased the max life rolls to something like 30 or 40.
All those ideas would just make it more important to get as many life nodes as possible.
Lower high end mob damage and raise high end mob HP. That way you suffer less for skipping HP nodes to get damage nodes and suffer more for skipping damage nodes to get life nodes.
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Posted byTurtlewingon Feb 18, 2013, 6:34:29 PM
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That would be you, Deceptionist. But see, you dont have these experiences; you dont have crap to back your arguements but vague references to people that may or may not exist.
So please, level up to about 45 with one of these magical builds and we will go leveling up thru the rest of the game so that I can watch you get 1 shot by something.
If I was black and this was 1998... I would say...
"You got served..."
I would agree with you DestinkFinger but arguing with a troll - whether you're winning or not - makes you a trollette, which is like, a troll's bitch, or something..
IGN: ScrubcoreRulezBitch
Alt: HardcorePwnsScrubcore
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Posted bymkmaddageon Feb 18, 2013, 6:35:08 PM
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You may have noticed I'm here, posting my own thoughts and not really intervening with what looks like a dogpile on Deceptionist.
Well, that's because so far, it's a civil dogpile.
https://linktr.ee/wjameschan -- everything I've ever done worth talking about, and even that is debatable.
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Posted byForeverhappychanon Feb 18, 2013, 6:35:11 PMAlpha Member
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As far as my ideas on how to fix this issue, one idea is that life nodes are reduced severely, such that they give you only a 2% boost or something. The 2 percent is a number I picked somewhat arbitrarily, but really I think the life nodes are about that much more powerful than the other nodes. If it is decreased in such an extreme way, it would make the defensive nodes more attractive as an alternative to higher life, as well as making the damage nodes more attractive as a way of killing things faster. It will remove the thing that happens now where getting a damage node instead of a life node means you have to fight maps that are X levels below what you otherwise could handle.
Another idea is to keep life nodes at the same power level, but make it much more difficult to get a bunch of them. Spreading them out and hiding them behind other parts of the skill tree would help this out a lot. Right now, there are a ton of life nodes that fairly easy to get to, considering how much benefit they give you. If nodes were hidden behind things like 3 nodes of 1 handed weapon damage, or alternating 8% mana, 8% life parts of the tree, it would make the player have to think a lot more about which life nodes they wanted to get, as opposed to getting all of them.
A final idea is to change the way the life nodes interact with items. I nearly doubled my life total from something like 400 to 750 by switching from random items to a quiver and 2 rings that had substantial +__ to maximum life. I am getting even more life from these the more life nodes I get. This seems to me to be way too much compared to other stuff. Even otherwise decent seeming things like +10-20 fire damage or + 5-60 lightning damage pale in strength compared to this. Stuff like +10 life on kill is really bad compared to a 100+ boost in total life. This may be mitigated if they decreased the max life rolls to something like 30 or 40.
All those ideas would just make it more important to get as many life nodes as possible.
Lower high end mob damage and raise high end mob HP. That way you suffer less for skipping HP nodes to get damage nodes and suffer more for skipping damage nodes to get life nodes.
One problem to me is the fact that the dps nodes do not really offer some classes very much in return. Take my duelist for instance. Picking up ambidextrous, a 18%/4% node, I gained a whopping 150 dps. That is a huge node; 18% is normally 2-3 points. 150 is a drop in the bucket when your dps is like 5k on dual strike. So why waste points in that when I can just get a life node and face tank mobs better? If the nodes actually added meaningful damage where I had to realistically choose between killing mobs faster or surviving more, maybe it would be an easier choice.
I mean on my SC guy, I have more damage nodes. Just my point is a lot of the classes suffer from the nodes simply not being as good as hp nodes because its not like a dps cluster is going to really help me mow mobs down any faster then an HP node that allows me to face tank and 3 shot them over run away and MAYBE 2 shot them.
Same for armor/evasion nodes. Since most damage that destroys you in this game is boss hits that almost ignore armor, or elemental damage, it makes those nodes pale in comparison to just HP tanking it and covering all your bases over wasting 3-4 points for a whopping 4-5% armor increase, and then getting plowed by magic/boss hits anyways; especially when you can just run granite flasks with 100% increased armor during effect.
Last edited by Destructodave on Feb 18, 2013, 7:02:48 PM
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Posted byDestructodaveon Feb 18, 2013, 7:00:44 PM
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This is the thing i would love for them to fix first. You dont need a 1300 point tree and then create a game that says most of them are less then useful.
http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/image/955
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Posted byVoodooBon Feb 19, 2013, 12:42:20 AM
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honestly, when I first saw this passive tree I completely agreed with jay wilson that there is no need for false customization. the tree just seems to be a lot of useless steps in making a character that is either: correct as the game was designed to support or a series of bad decisions that require a reroll.
after playing for a bit, I've decided that its more of a mix of customization and correct vs bad.
for whatever gear you are going to use on your character, you must take exactly the right passives. So there is still a false sense of customization mixed with replayability as gear level increases. First you make a very defensive-passive character, then more offensive ones as your gear becomes better.
still fun to work towards a desired goal, but i only feel like there are choices of which major points to take, then use a common sense route to get there.
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Posted bytwentygoldon Feb 19, 2013, 1:25:29 AM
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In the case of Armour, the question is a little more subtle, but it basically comes down to the same thing. If Armour provided flat physical damage reduction, then it would be more or less equivalent to Life% in terms of physical damage. However, it doesn't do that. Instead, it does something more interesting, providing almost complete protection against small hits, and almost no protection against large ones. Similarly to Evasion, this makes it a nice ingredient in a survivable character, but not something which everyone has to have. Also similarly to Evasion, it's made more effective by making all the mobs hit faster and lighter, but you'd have to accept that this is a reasonable thing to do. Currently, the damage reduction formula for Armour is a key ingredient in keeping death a possibility at high levels.
The damage reduction formula in POE is just ridiculous. Armour is useless when facing a powerful foe? We, especially melee characters just NEED the defense when fighting against a powerful foe, don't we? The one who propose this formula must be a GENIUS.
Last edited by amnes on Feb 19, 2013, 4:25:51 AM
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Posted byamneson Feb 19, 2013, 4:23:38 AM
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This is the thing i would love for them to fix first. You dont need a 1300 point tree and then create a game that says most of them are less then useful.
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Posted byarareon Feb 19, 2013, 5:17:18 AM
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This is only tangentially related to the OP's point, but I feel the tree could stand to be made far less granular, i.e. significantly reduce the total number of nodes.
Often while leveling you end up traveling through a bunch of attribute nodes or a bunch of similar + to life/armor/whatever nodes. This makes leveling up while moving through these areas a bit tedious, as you're not really making any interesting decisions, just picking the next attribute on the way.
I think that, as much as possible, the nodes should be consolidated. Basically, almost every node should be a significant upgrade for your character. To counter balance this the total number of skill points given out might need to be lessened.
To put this another way, navigating through the skill tree should be a series of interesting decisions. As much as possible, at any given time the skill choices available to a character should be significant changes to that character, and different choices should be differently significant.
Admittedly this is all a bit pie in the sky and would probably never happen as it would involve a major re-balance of the tree and possibly the rest of the game. Just wanted to get my 2 cents out.
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Posted byjiussaon Feb 19, 2013, 5:50:54 AM
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