Elemental Weakness

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Strill wrote:

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Alros wrote:

With Flamability, Conductivity and Frostbite, there's no reason to use elemental weakness anymore if you're playing solo and mainly use one element, right?
Unless you'd want to use double curses which of course would be quite nice providing two times the res penalty.

No, compared to other curses, resistance reduction gets relatively less and less effective the more of it you stack. You're better off with projectile weakness or Critical weakness as your second curse, if applicable.

Actually, it is stated that Elemental Weakness can push resistance to negative values, which will then multiply your damage instead (aka "more" damage). I don't see how stacking reductions will be bad in this case.

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Zealflare wrote:

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Strill wrote:

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Alros wrote:

With Flamability, Conductivity and Frostbite, there's no reason to use elemental weakness anymore if you're playing solo and mainly use one element, right?
Unless you'd want to use double curses which of course would be quite nice providing two times the res penalty.

No, compared to other curses, resistance reduction gets relatively less and less effective the more of it you stack. You're better off with projectile weakness or Critical weakness as your second curse, if applicable.

Actually, it is stated that Elemental Weakness can push resistance to negative values, which will then multiply your damage instead (aka "more" damage). I don't see how stacking reductions will be bad in this case.

If an enemy has 75% resistances, then you will deal 25% of your normal damage. If each curse applies -50% resistances, your first curse will bring your damage from 25% to 75%, a threefold increase in damage. Your second curse will bring your damage from 75% to 125%, which is only a 67% increase in damage. Dramatically lower than before. For the vast majority of enemies, a projectile weakness or critical weakness will give you much more damage than a second elemental curse.

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Vipermagi wrote:

A second Curse adds 67% damage, and still you claim a Projectile Weakness would be more effective? You do know the damage bonus from PW is like 30% right. It'd only be better if you had non-Piercing projectiles without Fork or Chain and had enemies lined up to actually benefit from the Pierce. A second Resistance curse will always work, with anything. Dunno, I'd say that's pretty cool.
Crit Weakness is really strong though, yes, if you're going for a Crit build.

Burning damage hits Resistances twice, though, so Fire benefits a whole lot from a second Resistance curse.

It does 67% more damage against a high resistance opponent. Against an opponent with no resistances, resistance curses only do 50% and 33%. Critical Weakness on a critical-based build can easily do around 60-90%.

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Strill wrote:

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Vipermagi wrote:

A second Curse adds 67% damage, and still you claim a Projectile Weakness would be more effective? You do know the damage bonus from PW is like 30% right. It'd only be better if you had non-Piercing projectiles without Fork or Chain and had enemies lined up to actually benefit from the Pierce. A second Resistance curse will always work, with anything. Dunno, I'd say that's pretty cool.
Crit Weakness is really strong though, yes, if you're going for a Crit build.

Burning damage hits Resistances twice, though, so Fire benefits a whole lot from a second Resistance curse.

It does 67% more damage against a high resistance opponent. Against an opponent with no resistances, resistance curses only do 50% and 33%. Critical Weakness on a critical-based build can easily do around 60-90%.

If you take an opponent with zero resistances and curse him with lvl1 Frostbite you'll do 30% more damage with cold damage. If you crit with that hit the extra damage is then multiplied by your crit damage multiplier, say 300% for argument sake. For an initial hit of 100 damage Frostbite is responsible for 23 points of that initial damage and 72 points of critical hit damage.

In the same circumstances Critical Weakness would have no bearing on the initial hit so damage of 77. In the event of a critical strike it would add 50% to the multiplier giving a 350% value and adding 33 damage to the critical hit. Of course, it makes Critical Strikes more likely but only by 5%. I can't really envisage any circumstance where the Critical Weakness curse is preferable.

Elemental Weakness is then preferable to Frostbite simply due to the benefit from quality being more valuable.

well... not trying to resolve/disprove/prove previous comment but i wanted to post math curse weakness would be working on the .5 part on crit damage and as a multiplier. so first... .5 * 4 [which is 1+ 300% mentioned] = 2 *1.5 = 3 +4 (for other part of crit damage) = 7 so a full 1 difference between using curse weakness (lv 1) and an (lv 1) elemental curse for situation desired above.

a lv 11/12 hatred is 20%, base physical damage is 100, non crit and crit damage is as follows:
0 res mob takes 120 or 720 with no curse, 120 or 840 with crit weak, 126 or 756 with an ele curse.
a 100 (75% and 70%) res mob takes 15 or 630 with no curse, 105 or 735 with crit weak, 106 or 636 with an ele curse.

hatred is a horrible example lets use a fireball that deals 200 damage, ignoring burning.
vs 0 res = 200 or 1200, 200 or 1400, 260 or 1560
vs 100 res = 50 or 300, 50 or 350, 60 or 360

that looks better... oh it seems crit weakness is... weaker for pure elemental setups at this point.

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Marzepans wrote:

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Strill wrote:

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Vipermagi wrote:

A second Curse adds 67% damage, and still you claim a Projectile Weakness would be more effective? You do know the damage bonus from PW is like 30% right. It'd only be better if you had non-Piercing projectiles without Fork or Chain and had enemies lined up to actually benefit from the Pierce. A second Resistance curse will always work, with anything. Dunno, I'd say that's pretty cool.
Crit Weakness is really strong though, yes, if you're going for a Crit build.

Burning damage hits Resistances twice, though, so Fire benefits a whole lot from a second Resistance curse.

It does 67% more damage against a high resistance opponent. Against an opponent with no resistances, resistance curses only do 50% and 33%. Critical Weakness on a critical-based build can easily do around 60-90%.

If you take an opponent with zero resistances and curse him with lvl1 Frostbite you'll do 30% more damage with cold damage. If you crit with that hit the extra damage is then multiplied by your crit damage multiplier, say 300% for argument sake. For an initial hit of 100 damage Frostbite is responsible for 23 points of that initial damage and 72 points of critical hit damage.

In the same circumstances Critical Weakness would have no bearing on the initial hit so damage of 77. In the event of a critical strike it would add 50% to the multiplier giving a 350% value and adding 33 damage to the critical hit. Of course, it makes Critical Strikes more likely but only by 5%. I can't really envisage any circumstance where the Critical Weakness curse is preferable.

Elemental Weakness is then preferable to Frostbite simply due to the benefit from quality being more valuable.

Actually, I've got this wrong. Since the Critical Weakness gem is more critical damage the critical strike in the example above would be 77+(77*(3*1.5)=423 or an additional 115.

What happens, if a mob gets more than 75% resistance. I have never seens immune mobs, so i assume there is a cap on mob's resitances (just like player's), and the cap is 75%, right? What happens, if mob ains more resistance than that and affected by elemental weakness? Does that means, that elemental weakness will have reduced effect on such mob, up to zero effectiveness, if a mob has something around 135% resistance (it could prety easily be reached via map's mods)?

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Vipermagi wrote:

Monsters have a resist cap of 75%.
Resistance bonuses and penalties are added together. They are then checked against the resistance cap. This means monsters can be 'overcapped' and thus negate Resistance Curses.

Resistance penetration applies after the cap is checked however. Pen gems are very powerful.

So, resistance penetration gems affect maximum resistance as well actually, right?
Though, despite they're powerful, they affect only single element and have pretty low numerical value. They arent well suited for combined attacks.