Elaboration on "Shotgun" Nerf? And How Does it Apply to Tornado Shot?

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Vipermagi wrote:

If ST could actually shotgun, then each Projectile would deal Damage on the way out and back in. That's a massive difference, in theory and in practice.

well, ya, quite. If tornado shot could shotgun then it would be the same, good thing it cant. But it still does shotgun, it just doesnt "shotgun", I mean thats where all this is coming from, projectiles from the initial fire all hitting 1 target vs the ability of the skill to hit a mob multiple times from 1 use via other mechanics attached to it.

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Antistes wrote:

How will tornado be nerfed then to prevent it from being so strong against single targets even if you use gmp?

this is achieved in a very subtle way via the massive nerf to ondars guile. since you now have way less evasion and they are removing the cwdt + ec + ic combo, it will be very hard for tornado shot users to survive reflect on their massive damage spikes. builds that do not use a functional shotgun mechanic wont have this issue, at least not to the extend of TS.

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Black_Gun wrote:

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Antistes wrote:

How will tornado be nerfed then to prevent it from being so strong against single targets even if you use gmp?

this is achieved in a very subtle way via the massive nerf to ondars guile. since you now have way less evasion and they are removing the cwdt + ec + ic combo, it will be very hard for tornado shot users to survive reflect on their massive damage spikes. builds that do not use a functional shotgun mechanic wont have this issue, at least not to the extend of TS.

See, that's what I was thinking would be the biggest hit for tornado shot builds.

The strongest defenses that they have is the CWDT anti-reflect combo plus ondar's guile. If immortal call and/or enduring cry are no longer able to be "casted" and instead shouted, then CWDT will no longer proc them.

As for ondar's guile, if I did my math correctly (and I understood the changes to its mechanics), players would need a minimum of 68% evasion chance in order to retain the original evasion chance against reflection. In higher levels, players might be forced to start using a grace aura instead of a damage aura to maintain this change and seeing as how they're removing the aura buff effects, it won't be very potent as it is.

Buff effect is gone, not aura effect (from what I read).

So basically no more inner force.

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zSavage wrote:

Buff effect is gone, not aura effect (from what I read).

So basically no more inner force.

That is correct, my mistake. For tornado shot, players would only be able to take advantage of influence for increased aura power. So the loss isn't significant, I guess.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

it still does shotgun, it just doesnt "shotgun"

Exactly this. It's confusing when devs say that it doesn't "shotgun" when we've all known that it does shotgun to some effect, which is why TS is so strong.

If the behavior of TS doesn't change at all in 2.0, then it's going to be even stronger than before because they've buffed gems like GMP, which now only reduce damage by 35%, down from 50%.

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Black_Gun wrote:

this is achieved in a very subtle way via the massive nerf to ondars guile. since you now have way less evasion and they are removing the cwdt + ec + ic combo, it will be very hard for tornado shot users to survive reflect on their massive damage spikes. builds that do not use a functional shotgun mechanic wont have this issue, at least not to the extend of TS.

This is a really bad way to go about it when there are profitable boss fights where you can guarantee no reflect and high damage is very relevant to the outcome (Apex/Abyss). Reflect hasn't been able to stop people from building their ridiculous clearspeed characters anyway, you just took VP or the gloves or surgeon flasks and barely noticed. I don't think "hey this skill does 3 times the single target damage but you might die to reflect!" is a valid balance approach anyway.

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Zed_ wrote:

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Black_Gun wrote:

this is achieved in a very subtle way via the massive nerf to ondars guile. since you now have way less evasion and they are removing the cwdt + ec + ic combo, it will be very hard for tornado shot users to survive reflect on their massive damage spikes. builds that do not use a functional shotgun mechanic wont have this issue, at least not to the extend of TS.

This is a really bad way to go about it when there are profitable boss fights where you can guarantee no reflect and high damage is very relevant to the outcome (Apex/Abyss). Reflect hasn't been able to stop people from building their ridiculous clearspeed characters anyway, you just took VP or the gloves or surgeon flasks and barely noticed. I don't think "hey this skill does 3 times the single target damage but you might die to reflect!" is a valid balance approach anyway.

if i understand it correctly then thats not even a nerf. cwdt and IC still works. when you shoot TS once then IC will still proc, just not for long but it will be long enough to counter the reflec of the one shot. also EC was only there to make it longer, you can still cast EC yourself.

necro the thread a bit.

So lets' say a gmp fireball.

Fired point blank against a boss, only the 1 of them will deal dmg to the boss. So what happens to the other 4? Do they simply pass through, or will they 'hit' but not deal damage?

The point is, if they do 'hit', then at least the secondary burst will still shotgun the boss. If they just pass through, then that is that...

Change seems to have gutted Ice Spear and Freezing Pulse, cutting their damage down to 1/5th of the old damage in certain situations.