How the loot is obtained makes absolutely no difference. Both leagues have a supply of usable gear. People should do some research and actually post creditable things.
This may be the case in LLD (aside from Brutus' Lead Sprinkler) but it is far from the case for HLD (where I focus all my PvP time). The High level gear differences can be found simply by searching poe.xyz.is for any item type - daggers, 2h swords, maces, etc. I'll grab an example from searching for "generic 2h weapon over 500 pdps"
On Bloodlines there are 7 results with the highest being a sword with 577 pdps.
On Torment there are 54 results (with 17 Atziri's Disfavour) and a 2h 6L axe with 626 pdps.
Imagine the difference in the passive trees. I would struggle to pick up damage nodes while leveling because I need to grab more life nodes. If I wanted to be on a fair playing field once I hit ~level 90, then I would have to spend multiple exalts worth of regret orbs just to even the passive tree [playing field]. Then I'm stuck at what ever level I choose to respec to because I would be less effective in PvE by lacking life nodes.
In summary, the reward distribution needs to be league specific is we are forced into cross league PvP otherwise the gear discrepancy at high level PvP will play a large part in a lot of Hardcore PvPers not wasting their time fighting with a gear/skill tree gap.
I'll leave this quote from Mark_GGG from 2013 for eevryone to consider.
In Hardcore, if a character dies, they're out of the league. This doesn't only affect the character, it affects the economy, because all items that character had died with them, and as far as HC is concerned, are gone forever. It is never possible in HC for you to be using an item that belonged to a character that died, because their items were taken out with them.
In Anarchy, characters can continue when they die. While we track character deaths and could move to hardcore only characters that never died in Anarchy, they would be carrying items that do not belong in a hardcore economy, because they've traded with characters who died, and obtained items tainted by death. These characters managed not to die by directly benefiting from a non-HC economy, where far more items are easily available because they aren't constantly leaving, and would carry hundreds of death-tainted items to HC with them, should such a transfer occur.
Even if we kept death counts for every individual item in the league, and didn't transfer those, we'd have characters arriving in hardcore without most of their gear, losing HC gems that were socketed in non-HC items, and fundamentally, we're still putting characters in HC who didn't avoid dying in hardcore.
Not dying in a softcore league and not dying in a hardcore league are not the same, because the softcore league has far more easily available items in the economy, due to them not leaving when characters with them die. It's easier to gear up.
A character who only "didn't die" in Anarchy did not achieve the same as a character who didn't die in HC. They probably used items that wouldn't exist in a hardcore economy. They almost certainly benefited from the larger numbers of items in the economy. If they ever played in parties with characters that died, then they made progress they could not have made in HC.
A character who didn't die in Anarchy, or any other softcore league, is not equivalent to one who doesn't die in hardcore. As such, moving characters from such leagues to hardcore would not be reasonable.
That is a fantastic post by FreeMark. Please consider his post in regards to how this affects HLD. And please enjoy Mark_GGG's quote as it perfectly summarizes the differences between hc and sc leagues and how the economy is affected by it. Great read.
That is a fantastic post by FreeMark. Please consider his post in regards to how this affects HLD. And please enjoy Mark_GGG's quote as it perfectly summarizes the differences between hc and sc leagues and how the economy is affected by it. Great read.
So, there is one solid reasoning against it. Aside from the 10 people that hld pvp in hc, why is it such a bad thing to combine? HLD though in my eyes wont ever be balanced and the lack of supply isn't the reasoning why. There aren't enough resources to dedicate it seems to babysit and properly balance out the pvp atm. The recent adjustments were mostly a joke.
I am not saying those people should be disregarded, but when looking at the whole picture it clearly benefits the state of pvp for more participation.
Edit: I even agree on the HLD part showing possibly extreme differences, but I feel the pros heavily outweigh the con.
Putting the leagues together MIGHT be a necessary change. It might have also just been noticed recently by the amount of participation in the new leagues. This also is a problem. Several of the players I know and talk with often(HC PvPers)aren't even competing because they,like myself,don't want to go through the time and effort of putting together characters over and over in leagues. This has VERY little to do with PvP,and almost everything to do with PvE,and just acquiring items.
I feel this way as well. It seems necessary to make the events have a better flow from more people participating.
I don't understand the people posting for sympathy in BL, acquiring gear there has been exactly the same as torment from my experience. It's just a matter of effort. From a quick glimpse, most will assume its harder to gear for pvp / lld from a lower amount of players, but if you actually search for gear the gear is there. The few pieces you need to craft, doesn't really make much differences from supply of the common uniques.
i couldnt disagree more. Playing to end game in bloodlines has the disadvantage of dying and losing your gear. (atm ~40bloodlines exalts ripped), and if would've started in torment at the start, i would have my 40ex but in gear there. The factor that my ripped gear goes to std instead of tmt makes it unfair. Also hld gear is such a joke in tmt. Try to buy disfavour, what does it go like 10~ ex there? try get one in bloodlines, mirror + + + since there is 0 for sale and 1 on existance.
This directly affects both my lld and my hld characters. 40ex is a big amount of currency that could've gone towards my lld char if i ever knew that im playing bloodlines for 2+months for nothing.
i think 40exalts could've left me with a bit better gear in torment.
id also have stuff like this still left to sell in tmt :^) instead i have them in std sitting in stash being 100% useless after dying
pvp loooooooool
Last edited by eMbbuZomg on Feb 10, 2015, 2:33:09 PM
Putting the leagues together MIGHT be a necessary change. It might have also just been noticed recently by the amount of participation in the new leagues. This also is a problem. Several of the players I know and talk with often(HC PvPers)aren't even competing because they,like myself,don't want to go through the time and effort of putting together characters over and over in leagues. This has VERY little to do with PvP,and almost everything to do with PvE,and just acquiring items.
I feel this way as well. It seems necessary to make the events have a better flow from more people participating.
I don't understand the people posting for sympathy in BL, acquiring gear there has been exactly the same as torment from my experience. It's just a matter of effort. From a quick glimpse, most will assume its harder to gear for pvp / lld from a lower amount of players, but if you actually search for gear the gear is there. The few pieces you need to craft, doesn't really make much differences from supply of the common uniques.
i couldnt disagree more. Playing to end game in bloodlines has the disadvantage of dying and losing your gear. (atm ~40bloodlines exalts ripped), and if would've started in torment at the start, i would have my 40ex but in gear there. The factor that my ripped gear goes to std instead of tmt makes it unfair. Also hld gear is such a joke in tmt. Try to buy disfavour, what does it go like 10~ ex there? try get one in bloodlines, mirror + + + since there is 0 for sale and 1 on existance.
If you continued to read my post you would have read I am only talking about LLD.
I absolutely have no interest in HLD and none of my posts unless it specifically says HLD are addressing HLD. This is current, I currently do not have interest in HLD.
My post even says for lld so... good job..... lol wtb lvl 28 disfavour
If you continued to read my post you would have read I am only talking about LLD.
I absolutely have no interest in HLD and none of my posts unless it specifically says HLD are addressing HLD. This is current, I currently do not have interest in HLD.
My post even says for lld so... good job..... lol wtb lvl 28 disfavour
was editing my post since i posted it too early anyway lol
If you continued to read my post you would have read I am only talking about LLD.
I absolutely have no interest in HLD and none of my posts unless it specifically says HLD are addressing HLD. This is current, I currently do not have interest in HLD.
My post even says for lld so... good job..... lol wtb lvl 28 disfavour
was editing my post since i posted it too early anyway lol
If that is all you got with 40ex.. I am sorry lol. I put together a gg char for about 10-12 on bloodlines. 6link and 200p dps bow, high quality gems n all. Still got currency left but too lazy to work on curse on hit gloves again.
Same thing applies for my torment char, only spent like 6ex since I played it a lot more to gear myself up.
If you continued to read my post you would have read I am only talking about LLD.
I absolutely have no interest in HLD and none of my posts unless it specifically says HLD are addressing HLD. This is current, I currently do not have interest in HLD.
My post even says for lld so... good job..... lol wtb lvl 28 disfavour
was editing my post since i posted it too early anyway lol
If that is all you got with 40ex.. I am sorry lol. I put together a gg char for about 10-12 on bloodlines. 6link and 200p dps bow, high quality gems n all. Still got currency left but too lazy to work on curse on hit gloves again.
Same thing applies for my torment char, only spent like 6ex since I played it a lot more to gear myself up.
lol, 40exaltls of gear that i've died with, that has gone to standard league and thus being useless for gearing my pvp character, in torment i could've bought the item, played to endgame, and sold the item back, thus not losing my exalts. I never said those are the items i bought for 40exalts, the lld gear for me has been ~less than 10exalts
im just saying, if they announced this before torment&bloodline league started i would've been fine with it, since i would probaply have sicker gear and all...
edit:added some more items to the original post up there
pvp loooooooool
Last edited by eMbbuZomg on Feb 10, 2015, 2:40:55 PM
lol, 40exaltls of gear that i've died with, that has gone to standard league and thus being useless for gearing my pvp character, in torment i could've bought the item, played to endgame, and sold the item back, thus not losing my exalts. I never said those are the items i bought for 40exalts, the lld gear for me has been ~less than 10exalts
im just saying, if they announced this before torment&bloodline league started i would've been fine with it, since i would probaply have sicker gear and all...
edit:added some more items to the original post up there
I can understand people would have done things differently, I even wouldn't have started playing bloodlines and could have possibly touched up my torment llder a bit more. I am looking at the positive effects from the change though. I most likely wont use my bl char but I can sure as frig put together one hell of a hardcore pvper now once the league merges.
I just don't feel it is as bad as some make it. I can understand the sense of wanting some distinguishable rewards based on the league you entered on but I don't think it is necessary. In most cases I feel the bloodlines pvp characters will be up to par or better on average than torment.
lol, 40exaltls of gear that i've died with, that has gone to standard league and thus being useless for gearing my pvp character, in torment i could've bought the item, played to endgame, and sold the item back, thus not losing my exalts. I never said those are the items i bought for 40exalts, the lld gear for me has been ~less than 10exalts
im just saying, if they announced this before torment&bloodline league started i would've been fine with it, since i would probaply have sicker gear and all...
edit:added some more items to the original post up there
I can understand people would have done things differently, I even wouldn't have started playing bloodlines and could have possibly touched up my torment llder a bit more. I am looking at the positive effects from the change though. I most likely wont use my bl char but I can sure as frig put together one hell of a hardcore pvper now once the league merges.
I just don't feel it is as bad as some make it. I can understand the sense of wanting some distinguishable rewards based on the league you entered on but I don't think it is necessary. In most cases I feel the bloodlines pvp characters will be up to par or better on average than torment.
i agree on this towards the ppl who put high amount of time to their lld(/hld) characters, but thinking about the more ''casual'' bloodline llder will have way worse gear thus less competive. Idk, I just feel like i wasted few months becouse i, myself enjoy playing sc, but especially went with the hc league since my guildies and friends pvp in hc.
