Remove xp penalty's from death

"Getting to high lvls without dying is one of the few real skill changes in this game, a game not known for being skill based either."

um... El oh el? Like I said, Getting to high levels without dying does not show skill. It shows patience to do easy content over and over again without getting bored or distracted.

I tried races for the first time a couple weeks ago, so not fun.. You know what caused my death both times? I got bored of killing 1 guy at a time maybe like 30 minutes into the race, then i go grab a few packs to dps together, to increase my fun, and died.

I know you can just pussyfoot around all the mobs, all the maps, and yes, you most likely will not die. Which is a success? BUT you won't get to enjoy yourself, your character, or the map cusomization system.. Which is not a Success.

The penalty should be lowered, so people aren't scared to try challanging content. And if they try and fail, they shouldn't be penalized more then if they didn't try at all. and will never know if they can actually do some content.

With this argument, there really isn't Any purpose for hard mods. Unless your level 100, why would you risk doing ANY hard mob. Rather be Safe then sorry is the saying.

The penalty needs to be lowered from 10%, because right now it is forcing the higher level players 90-95+ to play easy maps over and over. Where the goal SHOULD be to allow everyone the chance to try content for themself. Which the only time a person can do that, is at 0% (which happens every few weeks at 95+) and at level 100. If you try any content with >1% xp, you are risking your time and curency you put in to get those few percent, which are not easy to come by.
Here are 3 Suggestions:

1) Either lowering the XP Penalty %, OR making it "10% or 100,000 xp, whichever is lower" So the 10% doesn't become overbearing, and will just take out a predetermined chunk of xp. whatever is decided by GGG

2) making an option that a person can turn XP off for the hard map that they want to try. That way they can enjoy and try out new content. Challenge themself, and play along with friends, without the risk of losing the time you put into the character.

3) making a timer, the first death doesn't take away xp, but if you die again within a certain time, it will take away a penalty. either the straight 10%, or another discussed %. This way, players can enjoy hard content, still limited by the amount of portals to the map, and if they happen to die, they have the chance to "strap down" and "pay attention" to make sure you don't die again within the time.

What do you guys think? Lot of good ideas here IMO.

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levy42088 wrote:

It shows patience to do easy content over and over again without getting bored or distracted.

No matter how often you repeat this it will not make it true. You know how you said you're doing pack size + dom packs? HvC was doing double beyond maps. Maybe YOUR way is to avoid things, but most of HC doesn't.

Listening to you someone might think HC is easier than SC ffs.

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The penalty should be lowered, so people aren't scared to try challanging content. And if they try and fail, they shouldn't be penalized more then if they didn't try at all. and will never know if they can actually do some content.

This is where you are wrong, the challenge and fight overall means a lot more when you have something to lose.

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With this argument, there really isn't Any purpose for hard mods. Unless your level 100, why would you risk doing ANY hard mob. Rather be Safe then sorry is the saying.

Because some builds can do hard mods and not die or you can do it for the challenge and not care about leveling a character past level 9x. Many people are content with this, you seem to think the game only starts at level 100 because you feel you can't do whatever you want before. No you can't take a risk at level 100 anymore.

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The penalty needs to be lowered from 10%, because right now it is forcing the higher level players 90-95+ to play easy maps over and over. Where the goal SHOULD be to allow everyone the chance to try content for themself. Which the only time a person can do that, is at 0% (which happens every few weeks at 95+) and at level 100. If you try any content with >1% xp, you are risking your time and curency you put in to get those few percent, which are not easy to come by.

Everyone has the same chance at content, it is up to the player to choose what they wish to do. Don't mention currency investment in this, it plays no part in this conversation at all.

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1) Either lowering the XP Penalty %, OR making it "10% or 100,000 xp, whichever is lower" So the 10% doesn't become overbearing, and will just take out a predetermined chunk of xp. whatever is decided by GGG

Or just leave it at 10%

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2) making an option that a person can turn XP off for the hard map that they want to try. That way they can enjoy and try out new content. Challenge themself, and play along with friends, without the risk of losing the time you put into the character.

Players get this option every time they level, sure it doesn't happen very often, but it still happens. Why limit it to just XP then, why not disable all drops for that player as well as removing the bonus MF from party, don't be partial here if you want the player to have no risk that same player should have no reward.

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3) making a timer, the first death doesn't take away xp, but if you die again within a certain time, it will take away a penalty. either the straight 10%, or another discussed %. This way, players can enjoy hard content, still limited by the amount of portals to the map, and if they happen to die, they have the chance to "strap down" and "pay attention" to make sure you don't die again within the time.

You are a record, this has already been said, timer based penality will never work. It encourages players to play on another character, account or play another game. Hell I even gave you the benefit of the doubt to allow for players to "recover" their body, but I don't think that is necessary, would be interesting to see it added though.

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What do you guys think? Lot of good ideas here IMO.

I think you are a very strong minority in PoE. Because of your experiences getting to level 100 you refuse to level another character. You have a level 100 character and your next highest character is level 22, you may have forgotten what it was like to play more then one character or only do one build at a time, but others, including myself have not. You are playing PoE almost like WoW where you maxed out one character and refuse to enjoy any of the other benefits the game can provide.

To me it is quite surprising that you support this. With the only argument is people cant have fun until they are level 100, how can you say that when level 100 is both optional and extremely time consuming?

How long has it been since you leveled to 100, perhaps you have forgotten some of the advantages of playing other builds\characters\tress\ect.

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Moosifer wrote:

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levy42088 wrote:

It shows patience to do easy content over and over again without getting bored or distracted.

No matter how often you repeat this it will not make it true. You know how you said you're doing pack size + dom packs? HvC was doing double beyond maps. Maybe YOUR way is to avoid things, but most of HC doesn't.

Listening to you someone might think HC is easier than SC ffs.

HC gotta be easier they skip boxes, rares and have alt f4 macro at first sign of danger. Plus they take an hour to clear map.

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levy42088 wrote:

1) Either lowering the XP Penalty %, OR making it "10% or 100,000 xp, whichever is lower" So the 10% doesn't become overbearing, and will just take out a predetermined chunk of xp. whatever is decided by GGG

There's no flat number you could give that doesn't do the same thing as the current penalty in reverse. In other words, you're better off just arguing it's removal as lvl 99 100k exp is going to be a meaningless penalty.

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2) making an option that a person can turn XP off for the hard map that they want to try. That way they can enjoy and try out new content. Challenge themself, and play along with friends, without the risk of losing the time you put into the character.

It's called doing the map after you level. If you accept you WILL die both options you walk away with zero exp gained, but our current model allows success to be rewarded.

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3) making a timer, the first death doesn't take away xp, but if you die again within a certain time, it will take away a penalty. either the straight 10%, or another discussed %. This way, players can enjoy hard content, still limited by the amount of portals to the map, and if they happen to die, they have the chance to "strap down" and "pay attention" to make sure you don't die again within the time.

This is the "best" of these floated ideas yet it just doesn't fit within the context of the game. If this was added in there would be a drawback to that timer. GGG never gives free lunch. If you get the free avoidance of 10% it's coming at the cost of something harsh. So to balance this out it will be 15-25% exp penalty if dying in that timer window, maybe lower IIQ/IIR during the timer. Something that punishes the initial death or highly discourages the 2nd death.

As there's no way to just avoid this, you know being there's not multiple end game options, so people either choose to play with this looming penalty, which if it was an accidental death, sure. But if it was a death from difficult content, basically most deaths, then the person is just going to dodge the penalty. Why play this character when they don't care about getting to high levels under a time constraint but do care about losing that exp to an unforeseen situation? So just switch over to another character and wait for the time to run out. Takes longer to level up but never lose exp or have any penalty to deal with at all. Account wide penalty just drives people away from the game.

Lastly, it just doesn't make sense in the context of this game or genre. This isn't just a natural thing to accept. If you're a new player and a timer pops up you'll be confused. Everything about this game shows an increase in game speed as the game progresses, now suddenly there's a timer that encourages you to slow down to avoid a slow down. This disturbs gameplay and encourages play that's counter to how the game plays out.

It just doesn't make sense.

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goetzjam wrote:

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Moosifer wrote:

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levy42088 wrote:

It shows patience to do easy content over and over again without getting bored or distracted.

No matter how often you repeat this it will not make it true. You know how you said you're doing pack size + dom packs? HvC was doing double beyond maps. Maybe YOUR way is to avoid things, but most of HC doesn't.

Listening to you someone might think HC is easier than SC ffs.

HC gotta be easier they skip boxes, rares and have alt f4 macro at first sign of danger. Plus they take an hour to clear map.

Dont forget auto logout script when hp drops to 90%.

Since you asked, I'll give you the breakdown of my PoE career.

I hit 100 about 3 months ago.
Since then friends have tried to get me to start new characters with them, but I just get bored by level 10. The whole story line is a terrible grind, and half the time they don't even tell you where to go. A couple of friends apparently know it all by heart, but I barely did all the questing content ONCE.

I was getting tired with this game, and the only reason I made it past cruel / merc is because I watched some guildees doing maps. I said, screw the quests, I want to do that. Just like in WoW, I didn't care about the quests and missions, I care about the end game, everything before that is filler.

And I guess I was just smart / or lucky. I picked the right character as my first character. Lokailith has /deaths at 1,200 because I learned everything about the game through this character. And most of that 1,200 deaths is the learning curve of the game.

I started as a 2H Karui Chopper infernal blow, then switched to facebreakers + aegis, then switched to soul taker + aegis + molten strike, and now I am a soul taker + aegis + static strike tank.

Why would I need to spend the time leveling up a new character to the point of mapping, if I can just respec my guy. None of the other characters / classes interest me.


So whats the need of making other characters, if my level 100 can do anything, and with a few regret orbs and chromatics I can change to whatever I want.

Some off topic comments about being main tank in a group.

The only thing my tank would like is a better "Agro" System for enemies and bosses, and possibly a new attack/spell that keeps a mob agro'd onto you (the tank).

My job as the tank is to keep these guys from attacking my DPS, but unless you use vaal cyclone, you can't actually pull anyone away from your friends. Enduring cry is supposed to be a taunt, but then once someone else attacks, it switches to them.

So yea, Courtyard boss, my job is the point the fireballs away from the group. Dominus, my job is to tank the blue spell and make sure he is targeting away from the group.

Let's just put it this way: if I was in charge of the xp penalty, it would probably be about 5% at character level 80, and it would probably be 100% (yes, 100%) at character level 99.

If your goal in this thread is to make level 100 easier to achieve, I am not with you. I want it to be even harder.

If your goal in this thread is to unsmooth out this progression, to have the level 99 nonsense apply a little less to the eighties so leveling within that range is more fun, then there is a chance I might actually agree with a reduction.

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Moosifer wrote:

So please, 3 strongest arguments for why the death penalty should be removed/adjusted that haven't been addressed at all or properly.

1. To reduce the rage when you die on desync

2. To reduce the rage forum posts when people come here to say how desync sucks after they died a few times on desync

3. To reduce the amount of people that quit cuz the were sick of dying on desync

You see when you die on your fault its a lesson that you learn to become better and you accept it

When you die on desync its nothing more but rage, thousand of bad word to GGG that developed that crap etc

When player dies on desync and he doesnt loose hours of his playing time he wont be that much raged, he wont come on forums to say *FU with this shit, fix you goddamn desync or I quit*

Not enough reasons to actually do something,sure. Desync isnt real

Guys you gotta make this thread 500 pages long, by 400th page you should have all the info about the past, about family, habits, pets, favourite food of everyone envolved in this discussion, to analyze the influence of it on his opinion, by 500 page yoy will start posting anecdotes, your plans for the day, your dreams of the last night. And the discussion will end when you have nothing more to ask or say.

At the end both side will agree with the opposite. And those who was against fixing xp pen will start a new thread where they will cry about unfair loosing xp by the goddamn desync. To start it all over again.

Because boredom

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The_Great_Alex wrote:

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Moosifer wrote:

So please, 3 strongest arguments for why the death penalty should be removed/adjusted that haven't been addressed at all or properly.

1. To reduce the rage when you die on desync

2. To reduce the rage forum posts when people come here to say how desync sucks after they died a few times on desync

3. To reduce the amount of people that quit cuz the were sick of dying on desync

You see when you die on your fault its a lesson that you learn to become better and you accept it

When you die on desync its nothing more but rage, thousand of bad word to GGG that developed that crap etc

When player dies on desync and he doesnt loose hours of his playing time he wont be that much raged, he wont come on forums to say *FU with this shit, fix you goddamn desync or I quit*

Not enough reasons to actually do something,sure. Desync isnt real

Guys you gotta make this thread 500 pages long, by 400th page you should have all the info about the past, about family, habits, pets, favourite food of everyone envolved in this discussion, to analyze the influence of it on his opinion, by 500 page yoy will start posting anecdotes, your plans for the day, your dreams of the last night. And the discussion will end when you have nothing more to ask or say.

At the end both side will agree with the opposite. And those who was against fixing xp pen will start a new thread where they will cry about unfair loosing xp by the goddamn desync. To start it all over again.

Because boredom

Tl;dr desync happens deal with it, you can't complain about an aspect of the game that is "unfair" when you choose to play that game and not build a proper character.

People can get to level 100 in HC leagues, do you think desync just magically doesn't happen to them? No, they build, plan and play around it.

Stop crying about desync and using it as an excuse to get everything you want changed in the game, its old, beaten and never forgotten problem in PoE.

You can do all content in this game by level 85, level 90 is relatively easy to get and the penalty only increases to "unfair" levels there if you are constantly deing to desync. Thing is people haven't been using desync as the argument, but rather lol stupid deaths or hard mods.

Big difference between deaths in your control and those out of it. The line however where it is one, but not the other slides depending on the person.

Either way GGG will always have a harsh penalty on death, someone will always find the system unfair due to X or Y. This is why it isn't necessary to reduce it, you aren't satisfying anyone by doing so, those that want it removed won't be happy and those that want it to stay the same aren't happy.