Remove xp penalty's from death

(e) When you die the next unique you find can only roll as heatshiver. Lasts until you find a unique. Stacks to a maximum of 999 heatshivers.

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Vhlad wrote:

(e) When you die the next unique you find can only roll as heatshiver. Lasts until you find a unique. Stacks to a maximum of 999 heatshivers.

Simple go farm dominus with a culler then go back to mapping.

Honestly people trying to come up with a complication solution to a simple "problem" when GGG already came up with a simple solution to a simple problem.

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goetzjam wrote:

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Vhlad wrote:

(e) When you die the next unique you find can only roll as heatshiver. Lasts until you find a unique. Stacks to a maximum of 999 heatshivers.

Simple go farm dominus with a culler then go back to mapping.

Honestly people trying to come up with a complication solution to a simple "problem" when GGG already came up with a simple solution to a simple problem.

(e) was meant to be funny. However, if you want to take it seriously, your proposed remedy is analogous to dismissing an XP penalty by saying 'simple go farm more XP'. Your remedy assumes the player was mapping when they died, or that mapping is something they want to go back to. What if the player was an IIQ/IIR Dominus farmer, who dies 50%+ of the time during the boss fight? Now a death penalty such as (e) has meaning for them, whereas the current XP death penalty does absolutely nothing.

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Vhlad wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

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Vhlad wrote:

(e) When you die the next unique you find can only roll as heatshiver. Lasts until you find a unique. Stacks to a maximum of 999 heatshivers.

Simple go farm dominus with a culler then go back to mapping.

Honestly people trying to come up with a complication solution to a simple "problem" when GGG already came up with a simple solution to a simple problem.

(e) was meant to be funny. However, if you want to take it seriously, your proposed remedy is analogous to dismissing an XP penalty by saying 'simple go farm more XP'. Your remedy assumes the player was mapping when they died, or that mapping is something they want to go back to. What if the player was an IIQ/IIR Dominus farmer, who dies 50%+ of the time during the boss fight? Now a death penalty such as (e) has meaning for them, whereas the current XP death penalty does absolutely nothing.

If you don't want to level (progress further) then the natural penalty is the inability to improve your character further. That is the downside to death.

I understand that specific statement was meant to be funny, but lets be honest here, nothing presented in this thread is either a) good or b) simple to implement. A recovery mechanic if you die to gain some XP by clicking your body would be nice, but at the same time if you die in a 6 party map your not going to recover XP.

People will cry foul if something like that is added, however it would be more fair then the current penalty.

Life isn't fair though, so why should death be?

My hypothesis is the majority of players view wealth acquisition, not levelling, as their primary mode of progression. If my hypothesis is correct, the current death penalty is remarkably ineffective, and not much of a "solution" at all.

Whenever I've suggested an item-based penalty, I get a lot of negative reactions. I've even had one person tell me any item loss, no matter how small, is a stronger penalty than any XP loss, no matter how large; but that just tells me that person values wealth acquisition so highly that XP is a strictly secondary consideration. Even a large percentage of players who complain about the XP penalty balk at an item penalty; they might want to level, but their first priority, it seems, is something else.

I think my hypothesis is correct. I think your average player cares a lot more about their precious stash than what level they are. And thus perhaps, from that perspective, an XP penalty will always be a negligible slap on the wrist for most. For that majority, I advocate a penalty that's harsher than the current one, one that hits you where it counts.

But if you think designing a good item-based SC penalty is "simple," then you're a smarter man than I.

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goetzjam wrote:

If you don't want to level (progress further) then the natural penalty is the inability to improve your character further. That is the downside to death.

The downside to death is opportunity cost. Lost time (getting back to location and rebuffing), lost quest completion (if it's timed), lost portals, lost loot or lost map acquisition opportunity or lost xp from completing the zone (if there are no portals left), as well as lost pride/epeen and public humiliation (if grouping/streaming).

Beyond this, GGG adds a penalty: -10% XP.

But if you don't want something (or don't care about something), not getting it is not a penalty. It may be that 5 additional passives and minor life/mana increases provide no tangible increase to farming efficiency. If that's the case, you spec your 95 into maximum IIQ/IIR DPS and the -10% XP penalty added by GGG becomes meaningless.

One of the things I've noticed pugging in standard, especially during the height of 820 master chains, is an extremely high death rate of level 100 characters. They go all out mobility/DPS because there is no risk, no fear of death. Should no added death penalty be a reward for reaching 100? Should there be a disproportionately extreme added death penalty for players 95+ who still want to level? Why?

The 10% XP penalty is generally fine through the leveling process but breaks down at max level (where it does nothing), at high levels (where the XP curve becomes exponential and 10+ exalts + hours/days of time are lost per death), and at just good enough levels (where players (or bots!) complete currency/item farming builds and focus on wealth generation. It's fully justified to want something better.

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goetzjam wrote:

A recovery mechanic if you die to gain some XP by clicking your body would be nice, but at the same time if you die in a 6 party map your not going to recover XP.

Given the current efficiency of grouping (distributed map cost + aura stacking + additional bodies/targets for enemies + debuffs/curses/status ailments + CC + 1:0.6 scaling + designated iir/iiq culler), I wouldn't view it as a deal breaker to be unable to partake in the recovery mechanic in a full group.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

My hypothesis is the majority of players view wealth acquisition, not levelling, as their primary mode of progression. If my hypothesis is correct, the current death penalty is remarkably ineffective, and not much of a "solution" at all.

Whenever I've suggested an item-based penalty, I get a lot of negative reactions. I've even had one person tell me any item loss, no matter how small, is a stronger penalty than any XP loss, no matter how large; but that just tells me that person values wealth acquisition so highly that XP is a strictly secondary consideration. Even a large percentage of players who complain about the XP penalty balk at an item penalty; they might want to level, but their first priority, it seems, is something else.

I think my hypothesis is correct. I think your average player cares a lot more about their precious stash than what level they are. And thus perhaps, from that perspective, an XP penalty will always be a negligible slap on the wrist for most. For that majority, I advocate a penalty that's harsher than the current one, one that hits you where it counts.

But if you think designing a good item-based SC penalty is "simple," then you're a smarter man than I.

I totally agree and it's why I don't see the current penalty as that harsh. I've done the grind everyone is bitching about, I've dealt with the deaths and my build got stronger because I was forced to adjust. If I was losing currency, I probably would have said fuck it.

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goetzjam wrote:

If you don't want to level (progress further) then the natural penalty is the inability to improve your character further. That is the downside to death.

I understand that specific statement was meant to be funny, but lets be honest here, nothing presented in this thread is either a) good or b) simple to implement. A recovery mechanic if you die to gain some XP by clicking your body would be nice, but at the same time if you die in a 6 party map your not going to recover XP.

Nothing could be farther from the truth. Lots of great ideas that wouldn't be hard to implement have already been suggested.

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Moosifer wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

My hypothesis is the majority of players view wealth acquisition, not levelling, as their primary mode of progression. If my hypothesis is correct, the current death penalty is remarkably ineffective, and not much of a "solution" at all.

Whenever I've suggested an item-based penalty, I get a lot of negative reactions. I've even had one person tell me any item loss, no matter how small, is a stronger penalty than any XP loss, no matter how large; but that just tells me that person values wealth acquisition so highly that XP is a strictly secondary consideration. Even a large percentage of players who complain about the XP penalty balk at an item penalty; they might want to level, but their first priority, it seems, is something else.

I think my hypothesis is correct. I think your average player cares a lot more about their precious stash than what level they are. And thus perhaps, from that perspective, an XP penalty will always be a negligible slap on the wrist for most. For that majority, I advocate a penalty that's harsher than the current one, one that hits you where it counts.

But if you think designing a good item-based SC penalty is "simple," then you're a smarter man than I.

I totally agree and it's why I don't see the current penalty as that harsh. I've done the grind everyone is bitching about, I've dealt with the deaths and my build got stronger because I was forced to adjust. If I was losing currency, I probably would have said fuck it.

Completely would have given up on certain characters if I lost anything other then XP.

In every APRG ever there is a penalty for death, PoE should be no different.

I dont get it... if you dont like the XP penalty, you always could join us in HC.
We dont have a XP penalty here...