Mechanics thread

I got complicated questions, hope a mod answers them.


They are affecting the interaction of the

1) general stun-chance (stun_chance = 200 * damage / defender_effective_max_life)

2) Passive Point: Heavy Draw

3) Passive Point: King of the Hill

4) Crits.



So...at first, my "default attack" has an average damage of 350 >per hit< (not per second or so).

(I assume that mobs in merciless have around 10k hp, is that a good suggestion...?)

-> 200*350/10,000 = 70,000/10,000 -> 7% stun chance. Is that right?

Ok, next point.

I have a crit multiplier of appr. 500%. So the

the damage of the hit (350) would be in case of a crit 1750. so

-> 200*1750/10,000 = 35% stun chance <---- Is that suggestion correct?




Ok, the point why I am confused now is "King of the Hill". This passive is NOT a stun, right?

But it interrupts enemy actions like jumping, attacking etc!!


Or is that a mistake of mine, because EVERY time i do a crit, I also procc "King of the Hill", the damage of my crit is so big that I ALWAYS stun? Maybe i estimated monsters hp too high and I have 100% stun chance with a crit hit?

So, does King of the Hill ITSELF interrupt enemy action like attackin, jumping, casting, or is it the crits DAMAGE which also proccs King of the Hill?



Really hope a developer will answer this.

And buff King of the Hill, plz. Everybody says its too weak, so buff it plz ;)

knock back =/= stun
your math is correct but mobs do not have that much hp. it is closer to 3k and others may say that is too high still.
heavy draw makes stuns somewhat longer.
yes a stun is similar to an interrupt. knock backs do not interrupt.

This is item level 77 (the maximum):



Do I want to scour it and transmute/alt it until I get one of the highest ES prefix and then regal it? If my regal doesn't give me the other highest ES prefix I'm pretty fucked as I'd need to either use exalted orbs on it or scour it and start over again. I'm not sure what would be more optimal and not sure how to tackle this problem from a mathematical side.

Dear Malice,

I've encountered a quirk in the value of my "Main Hand Critical Strike Chance" that appears in the character panel. An apology in advance if this has already been brought to your attention. I looked through recent replies and found nothing on this.

Secondly, I've proven that the DPS in your character panel is calculated with a non-rounded Crit Chance, which may differ from the Crit Chance shown in the character panel. This fact is somewhat noteworthy, since all other values in the DPS formula can be read directly from your character panel. Crit Chance appears to be the only exception.

Details & Calculations:




My Conclusions/Questions (TLDR)

#1 The Crit Chance that appears in your character panel is rounded.
#1 Oddly, my non-rounded Crit Chance, 14.35%, appears in my character panel as 14.3%. Why is it rounding down? Is it bugged?
#2 The DPS formula uses the non-rounded Crit Chance value, not necessarily the Crit Chance value that appears in the character panel. This is significant, since all other values in the DPS formula can be taken directly from the character panel. Crit Chance is apparently the only exception.

Overall not big issues by any means... but I'm creating a DPS tool (calculator & stat-to-dps converter), so it affects me even when values are off by slim margins. Thought I would bring them to your attention.

Thanks,

Nairul

"

soul4hdwn wrote:

knock back =/= stun
your math is correct but mobs do not have that much hp. it is closer to 3k and others may say that is too high still.
heavy draw makes stuns somewhat longer.
yes a stun is similar to an interrupt. knock backs do not interrupt.

I saw, that my shots, if they do crits, interrupt enemy jump attack, so the enemy stops to jump where i hit him and gets knockbacked by KotH. So this Interrupt is really due to the Crit Damage itself only?

If I do a crit that not stuns (what is not possbible with my damage it seems x), KotH wouldnt end the enemys jump but only knockback him IN the jump...?

So that, if in one hit

1) KotH proccs and
2) I do not stun

the enemys jump isnt interrupted but it looks like that:

ENEMY juuuuuuuuuuump on ME ~ without KotH procc

ENEMY juuuuuuuump on ME (shorter jump, can u seeit? :P) ~ with KotH procc, because he gets knockbacked in Air?


Man is this complicated. x)

yes knockback simply pushes foes away. the complication or confusion is because they are doing a melee attack and might miss you when they "land" for their leap. similar happens if they are already in melee range, if they attack and get knocked back, then they miss THEN move to try again.

"

Nairul wrote:

Spoiler

Dear Malice,

I've encountered a quirk in the value of my "Main Hand Critical Strike Chance" that appears in the character panel. An apology in advance if this has already been brought to your attention. I looked through recent replies and found nothing on this.

Secondly, I've proven that the DPS in your character panel is calculated with a non-rounded Crit Chance, which may differ from the Crit Chance shown in the character panel. This fact is somewhat noteworthy, since all other values in the DPS formula can be read directly from your character panel. Crit Chance appears to be the only exception.

Details & Calculations:

Spoiler

My stats (default attack):
All taken from character panel

Crit_Chance: 14.3% <--This value is taken from my character panel (for comparison).
Crit_Chance_weapon_type): 5%
Local_Crit_Chance_Multiplier: 0%
Total_Crit_Chance_Multiplier: 187% <---I have triple-checked this sum. It is correct.

Crit Chance Formula:

Spoiler

Crit Chance = (Crit_Chance_weapon_type)x(Local_Crit_Chance_Multiplier + 1)x(Total Crit_Chance_Multiplier + 1)

So, let's calculate my Crit Chance:

14.35% = 0.1435 = (0.05)x(0.00+1)x(1.87+1)

The 14.35% Crit Chance value is different than the 14.3% Crit Chance value that appears on my character panel.

Conclusion #1: The Crit Chance on the character panel is a rounded value. (Nothing surprising about this, considering the total min-max damage values are also rounded.)

In my case, the Crit Chance on my character panel is rounded down to 14.3%. This is odd, since 14.35% should round up to 14.4%.

I have confirmed with different stats that Crit Chance on the character panel can round up (I can provide evidence of this if needed).

Conclusion #2: Why is my Crit Chance rounding down (when it should be rounding up)? Is it bugged?

On to DPS. Which Crit Chance value is plugged in to the DPS formula: rounded or un-rounded? Let’s try plugging in the non-rounded value.

My stats (default attack):

DPS: 1664.5
Hit_Chance: 82%
Attacks_Per_Second: 2.37
Main_Hand_Total_Damage: 310-907 = 608.5 (average)
Crit_Chance: 14.35% <--Note this is the non-rounded Crit Chance I calculated above.
Crit_Damage_Multiplier: 384%

DPS Formula:

Spoiler

DPS = (Hit_Chance)x(Attacks_Per_Second)x(Main_Hand_Total_Damage)x
[1+(Crit_Chance)x(Crit_Dmg_Multiplier - 1)]

So, the calculation looks like:

1664.499 = (0.82)x(2.37)x(608.5)*[1+(0.1435)x(3.84-1)]

1664.499 rounds to 1664.5, which matches my DPS value in the character panel. This confirms the correct DPS formula uses a non-rounded Crit Chance value.

Just for arguments sake, what happens when we instead use the rounded 14.3% Crit Chance value on my character Panel?

1662.819 = (0.82)x(2.37)x(608.5)*[1+(0.143)x(3.84-1)]

The 1662.819 DPS value from this calculation differs from the DPS value on my character panel, 1664.5. The only variable changed was the Crit Chance value.

Conclusion #3: The DPS formula uses your non-rounded Crit Chance, not necessarily the Crit Chance value that appears in your character panel. This is significant, since all other values in the DPS formula can be taken directly from the character panel. Crit Chance is apparently the only exception.

My Conclusions/Questions (TLDR)

#1 The Crit Chance that appears in your character panel is rounded.
#1 Oddly, my non-rounded Crit Chance, 14.35%, appears in my character panel as 14.3%. Why is it rounding down? Is it bugged?
#2 The DPS formula uses the non-rounded Crit Chance value, not necessarily the Crit Chance value that appears in the character panel. This is significant, since all other values in the DPS formula can be taken directly from the character panel. Crit Chance is apparently the only exception.

Overall not big issues by any means... but I'm creating a DPS tool (calculator & stat-to-dps converter), so it affects me even when values are off by slim margins. Thought I would bring them to your attention.

Thanks,

Nairul

The crtical strike chance of weapons is rounded to two numbers. So it seems true to assume that the value in DPS formula is rounded to two numbers.

By the way, the DPS in character sheet is broken since, as far as i know, it doesn't take in account the chance to hit applied to critical strikes mechanism.

Do elemental damage notes effect cold to fire gem's conversion twice? As in first it increases cold damage by x% and then fire damage by x%.

"

soul4hdwn wrote:

all stun related mods are global but they only "work" on attacks, melee or ranged, not spells.

This doesn't make sense. (You can stun enemies with spells.)

If they're global, they would work with spells and attacks, otherwise they'd be local and only work with attacks (with those weapons).

"

pneuma wrote:

"

soul4hdwn wrote:

all stun related mods are global but they only "work" on attacks, melee or ranged, not spells.

This doesn't make sense. (You can stun enemies with spells.)

If they're global, they would work with spells and attacks, otherwise they'd be local and only work with attacks (with those weapons).

Correct Pneuma, you can stun with ANYTHING, the source of the damage is NOT checked for stunning. It's just damage per hit checked against target's max life.

So, Soul4hdwn, please try to make sure you are certain of something before posting it as a statement rather than a question in the Mechanics thread.

"

buschiwuschi wrote:

-> 200*350/10,000 = 70,000/10,000 -> 7% stun chance. Is that right?

To start off, all of your math is correct.

Now I just want to touch on something not directly related to your questions quick before getting to your actual questions.

7% would equal 0% because anything under 26% is simply ignored. So technically the lowest chance to stun you can have is 26% chance. This means you need to do at least 12.5% of the target's max life in a hit to have that minimum stun chance.

"

buschiwuschi wrote:

Ok, the point why I am confused now is "King of the Hill". This passive is NOT a stun, right?

But it interrupts enemy actions like jumping, attacking etc!!

Correct, that passive is NOT a stun.

But it does NOT interrupt anything. It simply moves the target back, the target continues to do whatever it was doing (attacking, casting, whatever). I'm fairly certain Mark_GGG has posted this a few times and I have read it recently.

Jumping would probably be an exception since the very nature of knocking back a jump means you are interrupting a jump (I have not seen what that looks like myself though).

"

buschiwuschi wrote:

...Or is that a mistake of mine, because EVERY time i do a crit, I also procc "King of the Hill", the damage of my crit is so big that I ALWAYS stun? Maybe i estimated monsters hp too high and I have 100% stun chance with a crit hit?

You're definitely not always stunning. You would have to be hitting monsters for 50% of their health every time in order to have a 100% chance to crit, unless you have a decent amount of Reduced Stun Threshold modifier from gear/passives.

You could be stunning very often, with something like a 50%+ chance to stun which is doing around 1/4 of a monsters life per hit.

"

buschiwuschi wrote:

So, does King of the Hill ITSELF interrupt enemy action like attackin, jumping, casting, or is it the crits DAMAGE which also proccs King of the Hill?

Again, no, Knockback does not interrupt anything except movement abilities I would presume, I would have to see what happens with Knockback VS Rhoa Charge (or Shield Charge) and Jumping enemies before I said it "interrupts" those.

If you're seeing enemies get interrupted, then you're stunning them. If you feel it's happening every time, my guess here is that you're just not noticing the times that you're not stunning or you're just thinking some things look like interruptions when they're not really.

"

buschiwuschi wrote:

And buff King of the Hill, plz. Everybody says its too weak, so buff it plz ;

It's strong if you improve it will some Knockback distance or if you just Crit extremely often (get chance instead of multiplier). Knockback on it's own once in a while is not strong, it's repeated Knockbacks that are strong (so many in a row that it locks the enemy down, which can be done if you build around it right).

If you are interested in seeing how strong Knockback can be (not very high level-end game-HC viable probably, but strong/fun most of the time) then look for a video with Flame Totem with Knockback or a Spell Totem with Fireball (or anything really) with Knockback.