Mechanics thread
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Yeah, that's why I had the caveat there about inaccuracies. Lots of changes over the last few patches, first I was told skills always stacked multiplicatively with passives, then the "total damage" mod, now "more damage" etc. - so it is out of date info. Thanks for the clarifications.
Reminds me of this, lol I will update the OP, hopefully it is all correct. |
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I'm finding it extremely difficult to write a concise explanation of all of this. It seems like there are more edge cases and exceptions to rules than there are examples that follow the rules.
Some questions: Is there a convention for when integer bonuses are applied? Generally they seem to be applied before percentages, are there any exceptions to this? For a weapon with an integer elemental damage bonus, does an on-weapon %increased weapon elemental damage mod stack additively or multiplicatively with off-weapon %increase weapon elemental damage? What about for integer elemental damage from a skill? Does it matter whether an %increased weapon elemental damage mod is on or off-weapon when affecting the damage from an added cold damage gem attached to an attack skill? edit: another question: Critical strike chance and critical strike damage multiplier mods on a weapon. Are they applied in a separate stage before off-weapon crit modifiers? Also, is there an easy way to tell if an on-weapon crit chance or crit damage multiplier modifier will apply to spells? Is there ever any multiplicative stacking of crit chance modifiers when dealing with spells? Each spell has it's own crit chance, are crit chance modifiers on the gem itself applied in a separate stage to modifiers from other sources such as gear or support gems? Last edited by Malice#2426 on Feb 3, 2012, 1:53:30 AM
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malice, I'll try to answer at my best, chris or mark can correct me if I am wrong.
#1 yes there is some exceptions, in example, added physical damage on the weapon will get multiplied by the enhanced damage on the same weapon. a 1-1 damage on a 100% enhanced weapon will become 2-2. This do not apply to elemental damage on a weapon as far as I know. #2 the mods themselves are additives to each others. The final addition is then multiplied to the elemental damage range. #3 There's no local weapon elemental damage so it will not matter. A 30% weapon elemental damage mod on your second weapon will affect the 5-10 fire damage on your first weapon. #4 for crit chance, it depends if it's local or global. A global one will affect both weapons, a local one will only affect that weapon (Increase critical chance by x% on this weapon). Same with crit modifiers. #5 If it ends with "on this weapon", it will not affect spells. Unavailable is a good example, the crit modifier apply to spells but not the chance to crit#6 I'm not sure if crit bonus on gems are local or global mods but either way, the result is the same. It's additive with other chance to crit mods. I hope I got everything right :p Some items in this post are currently unavailable.
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"I am not aware of any exceptions to this rule. What Faerwin describes in his post (if I understand him correctly) is not an exception, it's simply that the "% increased physical damage" mod that spawns on weapons is specifically for physical damage. There are several cases where one or more of the percentage modifiers won't apply to some added integer values due to restrictions on what the % increases affect, such as only affecting damage from a weapon or of a particular type. "I believe additively, as that mod is not specific to changing that weapon's damage, but rather is the same mod that spawns on other gear and affects all elemental damage dealt with weapons. I will check on Monday. This is pretty much because in general weapons don't deal elemental damage, so there was no "local" mod created which would affect elemental damage only on that weapon. It's just about possible one has been added without my knowledge, but very unlikely as generally I'm the one who has to hook such things up in the code (plus, it's still not a very useful mod to have). So I'm 99% sure on this, but won't give you my guarantee that's how it is until I've double checked. "I do not believe so, and will check on Monday. Same as above, basically. "Not at the moment, no - the same is true of local attack speed bonuses on a weapon - I intend to discuss this with Chris, as some people have rightly pointed out in another thread that this is misleading, as in these cases the weapon's displayed value changes and is displayed in blue, but that value isn't actaully useful in calculating the actual value including passives - in contrast to damage (and things like armour/evasion/ES increases on armour pieces) where those increase the base value from the item, and then further calculations take that base value and work from there. To quote theexample from the thread: | |
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So, in summary:
edit: Looking at the item data pages, there are local modifiers listed for attack speed, crit chance, and accuracy. The local versions all share names with the non-local version of the mods, meaning it's going to be impossible to test in game, since you won't know for sure whether it is the local or non-local version of the mod. The accuracy one is kind of moot though, since there aren't any % accuracy mods for gear (hooray!). Last edited by Malice#2426 on Feb 4, 2012, 12:37:09 AM
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- There is local modifiers for crit chance, crit multiplier and attack speed.
- In addition with the modifiers I just said, yes. - I'm not sure what you meant here. There IS accuracy % mods. They come as implicit mods on most swords. |
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" And accuracy rating too. Yes but they don't appear to work locally in a separate stage of calculation in the way that the physical damage and amour modifiers do. " See above. " You're right, I forgot about those. So it does actually matter if those inherent mods are applied in a separate stage or not. I'm avoiding the word "local" for now because it seems not all local mods display the same behaviour. |
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the only (current) difference is that local mods only affect the current weapon. With the only exception of physical damage on a weapon, they all stack additively with other similar mods.
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"Yes. "Local" with regard to a mod means that it affects only the item it is on. Currently local mods for increased physical damage on weapons, and for increased defenses on armour, will work differently to other mods by affecting the base value of the item, effectively making them "multiplicative" with later increases. Local mods for crit chance / atttack speed on weapons do not have this behaviour, but are still local - they affect only that weapon. In general, if a mod can be local, only the local one can spawn on the item type it can be local to - i.e. weapons can get local attack speed mods, but not global ones, whereas other items can only get the global version (because local attack speed on something other than weapon wouldn't make sense). The only specific counterexamples to this, so far as I am aware are the implicit mods for at least some weapon types do not follow this - the implicit mod on a dagger is global crit chance (and in this specific case the local version specifically says "with this weapon", so you can still tell which you have even though in this case both global and local versions could be on a weapon). Thrusting swords are the same for crit multiplier. I will check on Monday and list exactly which implicit mods are global/local. However, for non-implicit mods (i.e. the ones an item gets for being magic/rare), you can't generate the global version on that item type, only the local, so that there's no confusion. | |
" If a weapon got local crit chance, it can't get global crit chance too (assuming both are a possibility initially)? |
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