Clarifying Puncture
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I loved the old puncture, it was fun. However, it was broken. The nerf was overkill though and the irony of it is that it punished people trying to use puncture legit more so than people sporting intense bows and traps.
As is usual, the collateral damage from over-nerfs is quite severe to all of those but the intended target. "Danger is like jello, there's always room for more."
http://www.twitch.tv/vejita00 |
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" Exactly, Finally someone who gets it! while I dont think a minor nerf would have been too bad, but the real problem never was puncture itself, it was linking puncture with trap and point blank support. You got the full point blank bonus plus the trap dmg multiplier. With that you got another two 'MORE' multipliers on top of the already pretty powerful puncture + phys proj damage... but GGG overnerfed again and even on the wrong end... just like the whole rest of 1.3 'balance' changes Last edited by azraelb#0313 on Dec 19, 2014, 10:56:56 AM
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I see everyone comparing puncture to burning arrow for single target. Now in a situation where you are standing still and autoing the enemy over and over burning arrow can out dps puncture because it has a slightly higher base damage at level 20 (187% base damage at level 20) over puncture (176% base damage at level 20) and the burning ignite would be 80% of the base damage per second over 4 sec (20% per sec) which is 37.4% of the base damage per sec and with bonus burning damage from leveled burn arrow is 48.2% but is effected by fire resist (which mobs tend to have a lot more resist then armor). Punctures dot is 10% of the base damage while stationary (17.6% of punctures base damage per sec) but while moving puncture deals 50% base damage (88% of punctures damage per sec)
tldr; Puncture deals 40%~ more dot damage per sec if target is moving and 20%~ less dot damage if target isnt moving compared to burning arrow, so situations where your standing still and autoing the target (easier fights) burning arrow out performs puncture, but in a situation where have to do heavy kiting (harder fights) puncture out performs. Also wanted to point out that this is assuming burning arrow ignites the target, but there's really only a 20% chance of ignite but a 100% chance of puncture. Side note: I believe that even though puncture and burning arrow are close in numbers, there uses are supposed to be different. I believe that puncture is the "kiting" skill making it safer, burning arrow is the "hybrid" skill offering you to straight dps or kite, and frenzy is the "high dps while standing still" skill that adds some benefit to another skill you can pair with it. Right now puncture is kinda where it should be. Its meant to be that safty skill in pve for when you find a really hard boss and cant straight dps it down, instead you fire and run like hell where it out performs all other skills. If your running tornado shot then a gmp tornado shot is stronger then puncture for sitting still and dpsing a boss down, which actually works incredibly well. if your not using tornado shot and you want a skill that does a little bit of both then burning arrow is better since it gives you the option of kiting or sitting there. And if your balls are huge and dont give a fuck about kiting and love the tool tip dps then frenzy is the skill for you. Last edited by Malzaherion#7555 on Dec 21, 2014, 4:43:50 AM
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" This numbers doesnt seem to be true. On this setup (note Burning arrow is lvl 18, non quality): I have 63.423 tooltip DPS with non-Q lvl 18 Burning Arrow and 48.943 DPS with a 20/20 Puncture. That's 30% more damage with BA. But the point is that in both cases mobs die from crits, not from dot effects, so even in cases where kiting & bleeding would come in handy (eg. Atziri trio), burning arrow outperforms puncture. At least in case of crit builds. Imo, the stationary bleed should remain 10%, but movement bleed should go from 50% at lvl 1 to 100% at lvl 20 (was 126% before). And fix that trap-pointblank thing specifically, instead of ruining a broader scope of builds. When night falls
She cloaks the world In impenetrable darkness |
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what a surprise..
Puncture deals 100% base damage Burning Arrow deals 130% base damage (it is on the tooltip..) Malzaherion above described situtaion perfectly. puncture offers a player safety that other skills do not. |
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" The only player safety I get out of puncture is that it is telling me to use another skill that will be much better than at its current state. I miss being a real rogue. :( Sometimes you can take the game out of the garage but you can't take the garage out of the game. - raics, 06.08.2016 Last edited by JohnNamikaze#6516 on Dec 21, 2014, 2:01:57 PM
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" I disagree to the entire thread. Puncture is one of my favorite skills in the entire game combined with several other attacks as it does it's job over a longer period of time in terms of dmg addition alongside another potential attack. https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1552460 - my drop solution
Specs: CPU - i5 9600k, geforce 2060, 32 gb ram, ssd, 2133/2333 mz.----- EXILES EVERYWHERE, PLEASE?!?!?! |
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" Even with 9 seconds of bleeding and when I crit with dagger, bosses are laughing at me like I was a mosquito. Even while they are moving, for pete sake! I just decided to turn another skill into like puncture thanks to "melee chance to bleed" node + Bloodletting node, and it is already doing puncture's job while I am attacking. No point of switching skill, so it is back to good ole single button spam. Sometimes you can take the game out of the garage but you can't take the garage out of the game. - raics, 06.08.2016 Last edited by JohnNamikaze#6516 on Dec 21, 2014, 5:58:19 PM
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Just forget the puncture and focus "charges".
Future in charges, not skills. Skills are just tools. Endgame turning on expensive "charge" based items and better passive trees, not on skills. Skills are just like legendary item supports/assistants. You are dealing with something very wrong things. Again, skills are just tools; aim is different. You can make your tooltip dps from 1k to 10k with right items. Think about it. Neden yaşıyorsun? Last edited by Jideament#2792 on Dec 21, 2014, 6:34:47 PM
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I will leave one more food for thought here.
Puncture still has its place in the bow/trapper builds, but when it comes to melee builds, it is stagnant being that the only thing that levels up is physical damage, and there is no much of a difference from a level 15 puncture to level 20 puncture, and this is basing on a budget dagger (200-250 pdps), and not the mirror ones that are ridiculously expensive. There is no sense of progression here. With the existence of melee chance to bleed node + bloodletting notable combo, puncture lost most of its identity (what makes it unique from other skills) to those nodes. You can have this combo with any other melee skill that works well with sword or dagger, and it can be just as effective or more effective than puncture. Sure, you can still use Puncture with a melee character, and no one is stopping you. The question is, why would you inhibit that character? Why go 1 for the price of 2, if you can go 2 for the price 1? Sometimes you can take the game out of the garage but you can't take the garage out of the game.
- raics, 06.08.2016 |
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