Lightning Thorns

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Drahken wrote:

omg give it a rest. LT was nerfed. Melee has dealt with it. perhaps the days of spamming LA with zero skill or thought are over (I wish.. but atleast they are over for when you run into a map with LT mobs)

GET OVER IT

read this thread from start to end right now, and in the beginning i had sympathy for you melee guys, agreeing that this was a bad mechanic and should be changed... but as i got further into the thread and melee and ranged switched after patch. i could not believe the amount of retarded statements like the one quoted...

YOU just had the same problem, and now because it no longer affects you as much its fair?

and im sure you use alot of brain power and skill on whatever skills you use instead of LA, but i believe most people would agree that skill in this game is achieved through building a character, setting up skills and items to be as effective as you can be. and when you mow down monsters you feel the fruit of that skill, and the gameplay in these type of games is generally not very challenging. LT is an obstacle to making a character like any monster ability, just a very unbalanced one, you even thought so yourself when it affected you. just because it affects another type of build doesnt make it fixed. this type of ability is the reason i didnt play melee in D2, yes you can deal with it but the amount of hassle compared to just playing another char and dont think about it at all is not worth it. i know it not that simple offcourse alot of other mechanics affects only some playstyles like LT does, but when an ability far outweighs any other like LT its unbalanced.

so far i haven't had any trouble with LT, but again i dont hit a million times per second but if i wanted to make a char that did, i believe i should be able to without such a massive obstable

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LazerTechnoBuddha wrote:

"

Drahken wrote:

omg give it a rest. LT was nerfed. Melee has dealt with it. perhaps the days of spamming LA with zero skill or thought are over (I wish.. but atleast they are over for when you run into a map with LT mobs)

GET OVER IT

read this thread from start to end right now, and in the beginning i had sympathy for you melee guys, agreeing that this was a bad mechanic and should be changed... but as i got further into the thread and melee and ranged switched after patch. i could not believe the amount of retarded statements like the one quoted...

YOU just had the same problem, and now because it no longer affects you as much its fair?

and im sure you use alot of brain power and skill on whatever skills you use instead of LA, but i believe most people would agree that skill in this game is achieved through building a character, setting up skills and items to be as effective as you can be. and when you mow down monsters you feel the fruit of that skill, and the gameplay in these type of games is generally not very challenging. LT is an obstacle to making a character like any monster ability, just a very unbalanced one, you even thought so yourself when it affected you. just because it affects another type of build doesnt make it fixed. this type of ability is the reason i didnt play melee in D2, yes you can deal with it but the amount of hassle compared to just playing another char and dont think about it at all is not worth it. i know it not that simple offcourse alot of other mechanics affects only some playstyles like LT does, but when an ability far outweighs any other like LT its unbalanced.

so far i haven't had any trouble with LT, but again i dont hit a million times per second but if i wanted to make a char that did, i believe i should be able to without such a massive obstable

wahhh.

I have an LA. its not skill to make a cookie cutter build.

and guess what.. LT is NOT NEW. its only new to range.. its hilarious that it should be re-nerfed simply because one extremely over used build is slightly affected by it.

if anything it just creates more diversity.. plenty of builds have affixes out there that completely wreck them.

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Drahken wrote:

this does a number on cyclone users. I am a pure physical damage cycloner and if I hit a mob with this its almost instant death.

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Drahken wrote:

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ExiledToWraeclast wrote:

Here's a simple solution - why not just try an alternate method of going through with a given situation instead of saying that it has to be 'fixed' in some way relative to one's personal playstyle?

If in doubt, don't melee a bunch of blackguards. stuff like Fire Trap exists for a reason.

I pretty much have sub-par gear on my summoner witch, but because I know what to do in a situation, I don't have my face melted off by every random enemy that I encounter.

I've fought lightning thorns buffed blackguards with melee build as well, and used alternate tactics to deal with them. Fire trap works very well for such situations. Even a trash summon can distract them long enough that you can attack the arc mages instead and take them out, presto, no more lightning thorns once the existing buffs wear off.

It's not rocket science people. You hit a wall, you push through it. You don't QQ that the wall can't be surmounted unless you haven't used all your options.

The game is very generous with giving you options. If you can't use them, or won't, it's not the game's fault.

In fact, unless this is your first/second char and you don't have gear or gems stashed away, or you got lag/desync that doesn't let you react well to the situation, there's no excuse for not taking a minute to analyze what's happening.

Sure mashing one skill and watching things die is fun in any game. I don't deny it either. But you could at least try to salvage a situation using an alternate tactic.

I will own that the thorns effect could use tweaking, since the numbers can get a bit high.

shut up.

oh and btw I have 17% life leech and to the people saying that helps, it doesn't do enough.

and of course you can avoid it but its grossly over powered and only affects melee.

last thing this thread needs is some whiney summoner piping in.

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Drahken wrote:

wahhh.

All 3 quotes from different times in this thread.

Feel the hypocrisy.

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Drahken wrote:

wahhh.

I have an LA. its not skill to make a cookie cutter build.

and guess what.. LT is NOT NEW. its only new to range.. its hilarious that it should be re-nerfed simply because one extremely over used build is slightly affected by it.

if anything it just creates more diversity.. plenty of builds have affixes out there that completely wreck them.

i never said i played LA, i dont have a cookie cutter char. i have alot of bad chars and a few good ones because i like to try different stuff, and when it works it feels great. But even a cookie cutter build like LA takes some thought. it certainly far easier to make a char on a tested top tier template like LA, but you still need to make your items work together maybe switch some skills around to make your version of the build work. alot of players like to play a tested effective build, you included, that is their choice. but this was never about LA, this was about LT affecting a particular playstyle, just like when it affected melee it didnt just affect the most popular melee builds it affected ALL melee builds that attacked fast and hit alot of targets (probably still do for some)

and you are obviously ok with the first nerf, but unable to see it from another perspective. way to totally miss the point. there has been many constructive post in here explaining simply why you shouldnt be able to kill yourself off screen without knowing WTH happened to you, saying that are other builds that are destroyed by other broken mechanics doesnt mean that this is one is ok, it just means there are more things to fix, which you yourself again points out with the amount of LA rangers (remember the to much hassle argument in my earlier post?). maybe if melee didnt have so many things that instantly destroyed them (like LT now is for some ranged) there wouldnt be that many LA rangers. i want a balanced fun game, you want a rock, paper, scissors game where you can only pray that you picked the right char when you play maps?

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Duskbane wrote:

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Drahken wrote:

this does a number on cyclone users. I am a pure physical damage cycloner and if I hit a mob with this its almost instant death.

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Drahken wrote:

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ExiledToWraeclast wrote:

Here's a simple solution - why not just try an alternate method of going through with a given situation instead of saying that it has to be 'fixed' in some way relative to one's personal playstyle?

If in doubt, don't melee a bunch of blackguards. stuff like Fire Trap exists for a reason.

I pretty much have sub-par gear on my summoner witch, but because I know what to do in a situation, I don't have my face melted off by every random enemy that I encounter.

I've fought lightning thorns buffed blackguards with melee build as well, and used alternate tactics to deal with them. Fire trap works very well for such situations. Even a trash summon can distract them long enough that you can attack the arc mages instead and take them out, presto, no more lightning thorns once the existing buffs wear off.

It's not rocket science people. You hit a wall, you push through it. You don't QQ that the wall can't be surmounted unless you haven't used all your options.

The game is very generous with giving you options. If you can't use them, or won't, it's not the game's fault.

In fact, unless this is your first/second char and you don't have gear or gems stashed away, or you got lag/desync that doesn't let you react well to the situation, there's no excuse for not taking a minute to analyze what's happening.

Sure mashing one skill and watching things die is fun in any game. I don't deny it either. But you could at least try to salvage a situation using an alternate tactic.

I will own that the thorns effect could use tweaking, since the numbers can get a bit high.

shut up.

oh and btw I have 17% life leech and to the people saying that helps, it doesn't do enough.

and of course you can avoid it but its grossly over powered and only affects melee.

last thing this thread needs is some whiney summoner piping in.

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Drahken wrote:

wahhh.

All 3 quotes from different times in this thread.

Feel the hypocrisy.

I have an LA and a cycloner.

and this is rather funny.. my post before the patch i say its grossly overpowered and ONLY AFFECTS melee.

they nerf'd it.. and made it affect all.. and you expect me to still attack it? if not thats hypocrisy?

whats hypocrisy is the other person in your post you quoted.. exiledtowraeclast.. his post pre-patch is telling me to find a way around the problem.. and after they added it to ranged hes been one of the most vocal opponents of it.

oh and btw.. I just lost 50% of level 75 to 3 deaths due to LTs.. but Im not calling for them to completely change its mechanics because it doesn't allow me to spam LA. what they need to do is change the death penalty to about 5%.

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Drahken wrote:

I have an LA and a cycloner.

and this is rather funny.. my post before the patch i say its grossly overpowered and ONLY AFFECTS melee.

they nerf'd it.. and made it affect all.. and you expect me to still attack it? if not thats hypocrisy?

whats hypocrisy is the other person in your post you quoted.. exiledtowraeclast.. his post pre-patch is telling me to find a way around the problem.. and after they added it to ranged hes been one of the most vocal opponents of it.

oh and btw.. I just lost 50% of level 75 to 3 deaths due to LTs.. but Im not calling for them to completely change its mechanics because it doesn't allow me to spam LA. what they need to do is change the death penalty to about 5%.

So now you suggest that in fact the real problem is that you are unhappy with the death penalty.

I've explained this a billion times already, probably a good 20 in this thread alone.
Melee had workarounds to LT, because they were MELEE. They had to be directly next to the target with LT to attack it.
Ranged can fire into a group that doesn't even have LT, in fact, in maps you can fire into a group that isn't even blackguards. One of your arrows may stray off into the distance and clip a blackguard mage, triggering it to spam LT on everything around it. Your next shot may stray and chain and IMMEDIATELY KILL YOU.

At least when you immediately died to LT as melee, you saw the LT before you had the brainpower to cyclone through it. This isn't always the case for ranged.

I wouldn't even have such a severe problem with LT if it could only be cast by mages that are COMPLETELY VISIBLE on my screen.

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Duskbane wrote:

"

Drahken wrote:

I have an LA and a cycloner.

and this is rather funny.. my post before the patch i say its grossly overpowered and ONLY AFFECTS melee.

they nerf'd it.. and made it affect all.. and you expect me to still attack it? if not thats hypocrisy?

whats hypocrisy is the other person in your post you quoted.. exiledtowraeclast.. his post pre-patch is telling me to find a way around the problem.. and after they added it to ranged hes been one of the most vocal opponents of it.

oh and btw.. I just lost 50% of level 75 to 3 deaths due to LTs.. but Im not calling for them to completely change its mechanics because it doesn't allow me to spam LA. what they need to do is change the death penalty to about 5%.

So now you suggest that in fact the real problem is that you are unhappy with the death penalty.

I've explained this a billion times already, probably a good 20 in this thread alone.
Melee had workarounds to LT, because they were MELEE. They had to be directly next to the target with LT to attack it.
Ranged can fire into a group that doesn't even have LT, in fact, in maps you can fire into a group that isn't even blackguards. One of your arrows may stray off into the distance and clip a blackguard mage, triggering it to spam LT on everything around it. Your next shot may stray and chain and IMMEDIATELY KILL YOU.

At least when you immediately died to LT as melee, you saw the LT before you had the brainpower to cyclone through it. This isn't always the case for ranged.

I wouldn't even have such a severe problem with LT if it could only be cast by mages that are COMPLETELY VISIBLE on my screen.

their is no easy work arounds. especially in high level maps and tight corridors. I don't know what melee you are referring to but my cycloner does damage very similiar to my LA.. to the front of the pack and all of the pack.

your entire arguement that a stray arrow is causing more trouble for ranged is a joke.. have you even tried melee vs LT?

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Drahken wrote:

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Duskbane wrote:

"

Drahken wrote:

I have an LA and a cycloner.

and this is rather funny.. my post before the patch i say its grossly overpowered and ONLY AFFECTS melee.

they nerf'd it.. and made it affect all.. and you expect me to still attack it? if not thats hypocrisy?

whats hypocrisy is the other person in your post you quoted.. exiledtowraeclast.. his post pre-patch is telling me to find a way around the problem.. and after they added it to ranged hes been one of the most vocal opponents of it.

oh and btw.. I just lost 50% of level 75 to 3 deaths due to LTs.. but Im not calling for them to completely change its mechanics because it doesn't allow me to spam LA. what they need to do is change the death penalty to about 5%.

So now you suggest that in fact the real problem is that you are unhappy with the death penalty.

I've explained this a billion times already, probably a good 20 in this thread alone.
Melee had workarounds to LT, because they were MELEE. They had to be directly next to the target with LT to attack it.
Ranged can fire into a group that doesn't even have LT, in fact, in maps you can fire into a group that isn't even blackguards. One of your arrows may stray off into the distance and clip a blackguard mage, triggering it to spam LT on everything around it. Your next shot may stray and chain and IMMEDIATELY KILL YOU.

At least when you immediately died to LT as melee, you saw the LT before you had the brainpower to cyclone through it. This isn't always the case for ranged.

I wouldn't even have such a severe problem with LT if it could only be cast by mages that are COMPLETELY VISIBLE on my screen.

their is no easy work arounds. especially in high level maps and tight corridors. I don't know what melee you are referring to but my cycloner does damage very similiar to my LA.. to the front of the pack and all of the pack.

your entire arguement that a stray arrow is causing more trouble for ranged is a joke.. have you even tried melee vs LT?

Yes, I have. I had a very simple solution -- strafe the shield chargers so they'd charge past me like a rhoa would, then leap slam onto the mages and hit them with double strike/heavy strike until they were all dead.

You think tight corridors are bad? Try somehow shooting a mage in the back of a tight corridor with 10+ shield charger blues with regen life or additional life packed in the corridor so you can't get through, all of which are covered in LT. You will never kill that mage.

I don't understand this "melee vs ranged" bullcrap.

Who cares if it's melee who got fucked worse or ranged gets fucked now or whoever?

I don't think any build should have to deal with nonsense like this.

Putting a "suicide button" into the game by attacking the wrong thing once or twice is a very poor way to punish or counter a build of any kind, whether they are melee, ranged, or whatever.

I don't like that. Not for melee, not for ranged, not for anybody. I also don't like this weirdly competitive bullshit between players of different styles..

"Well MELEE had it really tough and all you OP RANGED characters just told us to L2P...."

It's like...really? People really think in this way?

I don't get it. At all.

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Duskbane wrote:

comment

just use poison arrow.