So i did the first Uber atziri as 2h melee[recorded it], my feedback.
" I don't see why they would. Look at the state of 2h and it's STILL being used. Not a lot, but still used. You can have builds where the whole build is CHEAPER than just your weapon, not even counting anything else, that kills uber atziri in seconds yet people still go 2h melee. In Nemesis 2h melee really wasn't all that great, but a lot of people did it anyway, because it seemed like 2h melee was viable and good. People just seem to like playing 2h melee even if it is weaker than other things. GGG seems to not like making things which traditionally seem "cool" (eg a 2h wielding barbarian) that good. Trappers are insanely powerful, same for cast on crit, but if you look at the flavors of them then they don't fit the usual "this is a cool fantasy character" type. tl;dr I don't think GGG will truly ever try to get 2h melee balance in order because people will play 2h melee regardless. (If they did there would be too many playing it.) @Aelloon
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I only consider using a two-handed weapon for roleplaying purposes.
But damnit, my characters are NOT stupid, and will quickly realize that two-handed weapons are useless in this world, by observing the effectiveness of partymembers with sword and shield or two weapons. |
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completely and absolutely agree
2h is severely underpowered daggers are king unfortunately im too stupid and old and want to relive diablo 2 whirlwind barbarian days heres my set-up http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1065143 had to sell all the builds ive collected just to gear it and i still had to borrow exalts to finish it in between " also that is utter complete bull crap maybe it was mistakenly interpreted as normal atziri and not uber? no way in hell is it able to uber without those items as 2h Last edited by Pepock#6039 on Sep 21, 2014, 3:51:57 PM
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" I'm also thinking some misunderstanding took place there and the testers did normal instead of uber or something, cause introducing this to the game and saying its possible without this gear is kind of ridiculous. I carve and sell real animal skulls, check out my work here: https://www.instagram.com/victorseiche/
https://www.facebook.com/victorseicheart/ World first Uber Atziri as 2h and 2h RT build: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1058950 Highest level char in Closed Beta, Wytchfindergeneral |
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I dont really have an educated perspective here on the 2H debate as I have no 2 hander characters and have never tried playing 2 handers with high end gear. I would say though that tells its own story, why do I have no 2h specs? Ive rolled 1h swords, daggers, claws, dual wield, with shields, blah blah. I've never really got into 2 handers because I just dont see the potential there.
How do you fix it? Hard to say really, might sound silly but I feel like the introduction of some kind of offhand slot item for 2 handers could really help, like a quiver style thing but obviously not a quiver, something that makes sense like bracers or a shoulder guard etc that could have both damage and defensive stats, unique ones that can give similar options to the current unique shields etc. If it was ever considered and then rejected because 2 handers have 2x 6links and way more base damage hence that would be op I think time has proven that no, actually it would be s step towards a more balanced situation. |
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" Ok, is there anything GGG can do wrong in your eyes? And balancing decisions on uber atziri related to average characters is not a good idea. Balancing decisions based on feedback that 100000 exalt gear characters with the absolute BIS endgame gear and 10k hp still have an impossible time doing the content, after GGG stated they completed said same content with inferior gear and same build (2h melee) .... is something to be considered, that's for sure. Last edited by ancalagon3000#6581 on Sep 23, 2014, 4:05:57 AM
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" Sad to hear all this The best tree for me was the nemesis one, where you could get 7k hp as a marauder with no kaoms easy. FM tree is a disaster, what will next expansion bring? Buff to life and nerf to CI again? I swear its like a neverending vicious circle or russian roulette, the meta shift in every expansion / new leagues reset. Making me sick. And the problem is their testers, either dont care or are incompetent as hell. Or are playing with Bis gear from level 1 to 90+. Last edited by ancalagon3000#6581 on Sep 23, 2014, 4:19:08 AM
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" The offhand slot thing is a good idea, someone suggested a bit earliet in the thread about it and that it can offer +to max rez or IPD, or added damage of X element, i think it would be really cool and youre right when you say that it simply can not be OP, these builds are just so weak now the buffs they need to receive have to be substantial to make a difference. " Thats what some people misunderstood when i made the thread, i dont base my feedback on just this fight, i showed this fight so people can see the huge difference between a almost best in slot gear 2h char and other BiS geared chars like ST or puncture doing the exact same fight. The thing is this thread would have never gotten this much attention if i hadnt done the fight, so i pretty much had to do it so as many people as possible can see it and hopefully ggg will see it too which might start them off in buffing these builds. And in any case, uber is still ridiculous for 2h and it should be looked at, im not asking them to balance 2h around it, i am asking them to buff 2h and as a secondary goal to also look at ubers more closely as a 2h char. " You can still get over 7k life without kaoms, i got roughly 30k tooltip cyclone and 7k+ life on my marauder and he wears only rare items, including the chest piece(+93 life) I have no clue what their testers are doing but theyre either just not good at testing a game or theyre just so good at the game they think anyone can play like them and thus decisions like this come through. I carve and sell real animal skulls, check out my work here: https://www.instagram.com/victorseiche/ https://www.facebook.com/victorseicheart/ World first Uber Atziri as 2h and 2h RT build: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1058950 Highest level char in Closed Beta, Wytchfindergeneral Last edited by VictorDoom#6290 on Sep 23, 2014, 4:42:17 AM
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when the magic vaal soldiers can potentially 2-3 shot u with the gear i have its a fucking problem
and yeah theres just absolutely no way at all i believe GGG when they said 2h testeres beat "uber atziri" with non-legacy no acuity etc just complete utter bullshit just look at the gear i was using, considering that still gets a potential 2-3 shot death from 1 minion but fuck it if that 2h shit aint true man mode :) Last edited by Pepock#6039 on Sep 23, 2014, 6:49:13 AM
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Why are 2Hand builds so weak? Because 2Hand builds usually have a lot of strength, sometimes 400 or even 500.
This means that 2Hand builds already have around 80-100% increased physical damage just from strength alone. Their melee skills also add another 60-100% increased physical damage on level 20. Just from the skill and strength alone, a 2Hand character already gains around 150-200% increased physical damage. Adding another 10% from a weak 2hand node, or those weak melee physical damage nodes that grant only around 10-15% increased physical damage just doesnt do enough if you already have so much of it. Reaching 300% increased physical damage as a 2Hand character is so common in fact, that you dont actually have to do anything to get it, just moving out of the marauder area already gets you there. Then if you finally get to a wheel that specifically increases the damage of the weapon type you are using, you are looking at a wheel that grants 12%+12%+12%+24% increased physical damage to a specific type. That is another 60% for 4 points. While it looks great on paper, in reality it is quite weak. Taking your base 100% damage and adding 300% to it, increases it to 400% damage (with 300% increased physical, you deal 4 times your regular damage, thus 400% total damage). Adding another 60% to those 400%, we go up to 460% total damage, which is just a 15% increase over 400%. 15% more damage for 4 skillpoints. Then you finally get to another wheel that grants another 60% for 4 skillpoints, which raises your total damage to 520%. That amounts to 13% more damage for 4 skillpoints. Skilling any more damage increase nodes becomes pointless. 2Hand is missing that additional multiplicative multiplier that crit builds have, thus they dont scale very well. They only have attackspeed and increased physical damage (and some amount of more physical from support gems). After you reach quite a lot of both of those stats, adding more on top of it does close to nothing for your character. For crit builds, adding more to any of the stats helps greatly, because they all work multiplicatively. I think the easiest way to buff 2Hand damage would be to add a completely new multiplicative multiplier that only applies to 2Hand damage (for now anyways, GGG is free to use it for anything else later on). Lets call it augmented damage. Lets take the skillnode Fell the Weak for example. Currently it reads: "24% increased physical damage with axes, 20% increased accuracy rating with axes, 4% increased maximum life". With the new augmented damage it could read something along the lines of: "24% increased physical damage with axes, 6% augmented physical damage with 2H axes, 20% increased accuracy rating with axes, 4% increased maximum life". This way, it wont increase the damage of 1 handed axes at all, while helping 2 handed axes. If we add small percentages of augmented physical 2Hand damage to all these nodes (even the smaller skillnodes), we could increase the total damage of 2hand damage from anywhere between 50-200% depending on how much GGG wants to buff 2hand damage. At the same time we are not handing this damage out freely, because you still actually have to invest into damage nodes to get that damage. Crit 2 hand builds dont exist except for staffs, so GGG just needs to be careful about whether they want to add some augmented damage to staffs aswell. |
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