[1.3] Compulsive incinerator [Guide]

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therealjcool wrote:

Thanks for the writeup - the idea to run a low-budget, low-level low-life build is intriguing :D

You are welcome. As someone who enjoy messing up with mechanics, I really find 'intriguing' a great feedback.

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therealjcool wrote:

Atleast this should be fun to play, although clearspeeds probably won't be great when solo-ing, heh.

While this is a quite unlikely build, I'm having tons of fun with it, don't worry about clear speed, you can solo mow through 70 maps without trouble, without even cursing.

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therealjcool wrote:

- Incinerate has a crazy amount of hits per second. Especially on earlier levels, LgoH should be a lot better at leeching life than life leech (until dmg is up to snuff)
- For defense / "oh shit button", I can warmly recommend vaal discipline, especially on hardcore leagues. You gain a few seconds of near immortality in conjuntion with the solaris lorica, since your ES works against chaos dmg too
- For better offense, you could alternatively carry Vaal Haste if you don't need Vaal Disc.
- Only problem with Vaal gems may be the lack of slots for them, will have to see
- Have you considered re-arranging the tree to get to charisma cluster? Maybe drop Champion of the Cause for it?

- LGoH is an attack support, the only spell LGoH you could get is from Cybil's Paw, and it won't work with ES (I switched too early to use it here but I remember it is pretty damn good with life).
- My "Oh shit" buttons are Ruby+Granite flasks, 50k armor, 10% ES/s, I would recommend Vaal Discipline for HC purpose.
- Slots are indeed a problem, you might end up with only 4 free slots, I lately switched Incresed Duration for Life Leech on Vaal Storm Call and it's so good (duration was useless, barely anything stayed alive long enough).
- Charisma wheel breakdown is 12% mana reserved and 6% effect, I have far enough reservation nodes but need alot more effect. Also, it's 6 points to get charisma so 50% efficiency, the same goes for the Soveregnity wheel which I find better (Champion of the Cause is right on the road, I wouldn't consider removing it).

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ancalagon3000 wrote:

2.4k ES pool

Yes, 2.4k ES pool on a level 75 character with extremely budget gear (to be honnest, I found most of the non unique gear). Yet I don't die with it, high armor, resistances and a shitload or regen on demand made it good enough. I reached 83 already with pretty much that gear.

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ancalagon3000 wrote:

The thing is he did all that sacrifice for PA and RF and boosted auras

I don't feel like I did any sacrifice (okay, maybe..., just maybe... sanity).

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ancalagon3000 wrote:

Now that is 3.3 x 2.1 x 4 = 27k dps if all 3 cones hit with no pen gem

Where does that 2.1 multiplier comes from ? 3.3k base DPS means 13.2k DPS per stream at full charge (reach within 1.5 sec), which is 39.6k with all 3 streams. Again, this is a level 75 character with level 18 gems in a 4L (including faster proj utility). It's totally possible to go 6L, adding Fire Pen, Empower, Faster Casting or whatever gems raise DPS.

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ancalagon3000 wrote:

How much armor will you get with IR? 7k maybe? Its nothing mate.

This build reach 20k armor from boosted Grace, Determination and some gear without any effort, then just be good with the flasks and physical damage will barely ever be a problem.

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I'll take a while to update the "Current gear and setup" section later today. Had minor gear changes but I took a few levels (83 now) and gem leveled aswell. The breakdown might give a better idea of what this build can achieve.

My bad for the calculation of dmg, 2.1 was for lmp (50% x 3 at shotgun range) but forgot tooltip also takes its reduction into account. You still have the final dps calculation I see on a lot other non RF builds, and without fire pen. (Yes you can 6l but thats costly and that was purely an observation on your own personal choice of links. you have a 4l with no red slot)

Also, you havent died yet but you will die to harder content. I do not doubt it, with less than 3k ES. Or else you dont die because you have to choose map mods very carefully, which kinda sucks (for me, I do not doubt you are having fun with your own build). In fact, you have to skip -max / vuln / half/no regen or else do them without RF and lose a third of the dps.

What I am trying to say is RF doesnt seem worth it at all with incinerate, when you can end up with the same dps without it, or even as CI and thus without going lowlife/PA, if you invest in more %dmg nodes instead of all the regen and aura / buff nodes and points needed to sustain it, whilst ending up with more survivability. You have spell dmg on your wand and less than 50% from your tree, while a traditional setup can have 250% from tree and a spell dmg shield, which ultimately nets the same or more than RF.

20k armor is nice :) Some ppl dont run both grace + determination so end up with 7-8k on average.

And dont take anything personal. I hate the build if anything, not the creator. Just discussing the build and giving my first apparent thoughts and critique.

lol forum desync

You are right of course, LgoH doesn't work with spells. I knew that, hmpf.

Anyway, I've tried my block version of your build, and it's been working great. Sadly I ripped at lvl55 or so due to falling asleep on the keyboard and not paying attention to corrupted boss -.- But the main idea to drop RF and liferegen, and get block/spellblock instead for HC is definitely feasible. The part that I wasn't sure about: Mana cost works out, too. You can easily run a 4L Incinerate for 0 cost. Without the RF/Regen part of your tree, obviously it is crucial to keep incinerate at 0 cost so as not to kill oneself using blood magic :D

Main downside of this more defensive version is that it'll take ages to reach BM from the witch start. Thus you can only run all your auras at lvl60 ish. Shouldn't be a real problem though. I really underestimated incinerate's damage potential :D

Contrary to ancalagon3000, I feel that a good bit of armor is sufficient to mitigate small and medium hits. Vs huge phys hits, even 30k of armor won't do that much. You need to dodge those manually or use IC. THere aren't that many anyway. Warden, Kole, Cells boss... Promenade, was it?

Playing my SRSer now, but will definitely re-roll this!

Here's my tree again, maybe someone can improve it even!

https://www.poebuilder.com/character/AAAAAgMAGyVLrukC34ptGdlbpys1uRFQLR8dT1yKwfOVIHvXj_rsGMHFf8aioy9v2RNwu19q2-dHBtDQrEdRTMpKb56DCUZxtAyTJxzcKaVOKipNfVusr-eRw4ZeExvIQzG2Qe7ZBjl5wBpVYSGE79wd378UcQ48OlI26GSjJbyfy4O2JwtCo4IQ37AsnIdlEFgyNK-3NsUfAoRI4vcBb4t6-tIdFI9Gm6H311XWZOcXL4CkXGvDbX7iUWBPfYBWqZUNfOq6FSAs6d0NW69JUfDVSbIC4wel

Fixed gear is Solaris Lorica (obviously), Saffell's Frame (maybe Rathpith later) and Rainbowstrides to achieve high to max spell block in conjunction with crazy high all res :)

Updated : Updated '12. Current gear and setup' section.

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ancalagon3000 wrote:

Yes you can 6l but thats costly and that was purely an observation on your own personal choice of links. you have a 4l with no red slot

This is currently what bother me, while I am considering taking this to the next, this means, as pretty much any build, a serious investment. As everything is balanced at the moment, getting a 5L Solaris Lorica will force me to go up to 3 Elreon's jewelry pieces, which I'll have to craft. So I'm currently saving some currency, preparing for the jump.

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ancalagon3000 wrote:

In fact, you have to skip -max / vuln / half/no regen or else do them without RF and lose a third of the dps.

Without RF, I'm currently sitting at 2.6k DPS, which is by far enough up to solo 74 maps with ease. I'm barely selective with mods except for -max which I don't like to run, whatever the character or the build I play, I find this one way too nasty.

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ancalagon3000 wrote:

You have spell dmg on your wand and less than 50% from your tree, while a traditional setup can have 250% from tree and a spell dmg shield, which ultimately nets the same or more than RF.

I have to admit I am barely considering spell damage, I'd rather get more cast speed. To me, the main thing with Incinerate is how long you take to reach these 3 stacks.
Considering purely the spell damage, the RF/PA combo breakdown is a 100% more damages, meaning I need way less spell damage to achieve the same goal, even with my currently lame 133% increased damage, you already need 378% increased spell/elemental damage to reach the same spot.

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ancalagon3000 wrote:

And dont take anything personal. I hate the build if anything, not the creator. Just discussing the build and giving my first apparent thoughts and critique.

No problem, you are bringing in constructive criticism, which I consider a very good way to spot mistakes or flaws. There is always space for improvement.

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therealjcool wrote:

Anyway, I've tried my block version of your build, and it's been working great.

Thank you for your feedback. I am more than interested on how this goes on a Hardcore league as I barely play any myself.

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therealjcool wrote:

Main downside of this more defensive version is that it'll take ages to reach BM from the witch start.

Reaching the keystone can be a pain, yet it’s such a relieve when you get there. Until then, you can use Blood Magic supports gems and split your auras to saturate both life and mana as you don’t have any cost.

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therealjcool wrote:

Here's my tree again, maybe someone can improve it even!

The tree seems good to me. As I think you won’t go further then Elemental Dominion and keep the Sovereignity path for later, here are some wheels you can consider on the right path :
- Being right next to the path, the mixed life/ES Melding wheel can help you early for stuns and is 1% more efficient than pure 6% ES nodes.
- Don’t forget the two first nodes on the Charisma wheel.
- Command of Steel wheel will be a huge ES boost with a good shield (high ES levelling or end game Rathpith Globe).

I wish your next attempt to be better again !

Thanks for the tips! COmmand of Steel wheel is awesome, thank you.
Getting a high ES shield in conjunction with those nice shield nodes will go a long way to provide some much-needed energy shield.

By the way: Have you tried added chaos damage as 4th link? I think with a q20 incinerate you can save the projectile speed gem (its 40% boost). I had a q20 one, rip :P Anyway I thought it was enough range.
Also, for a block incinerate build, Cybil's paw is the most OP weapon you can get. +8 life on hit with like a gazillion hits per second is probably even better than LL gem, since leech limit doesn't apply. Of course, without the block you lose a lot of spell damage.

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Andelruce wrote:

I have to admit I am barely considering spell damage, I'd rather get more cast speed. To me, the main thing with Incinerate is how long you take to reach these 3 stacks.
Considering purely the spell damage, the RF/PA combo breakdown is a 100% more damages, meaning I need way less spell damage to achieve the same goal, even with my currently lame 133% increased damage, you already need 378% increased spell/elemental damage to reach the same spot.

My point was - a lot of the passive points you take are simply to sustain RF and PA. There is a lot of tree travel and 'inefficiency' cuz of all the int / dex / str nodes taken because of this, too. 378% spell / fire / ele dmg with a CI or life tree, are not difficult to get if you include wand or ES shield / rathpith. You might get a bit less dps than RF / PA - but as you said yourself, even without RF you are fine. The difference is, the survivability using an ES chest and shield instead of solaris / rotp will jump tremendously. I do not know how you survive with that amount of ES, but my hats off to you. Of course, if you ever find a shavronne, all that will change :) :) *grin*

Of course, you also did away with the mana costs issue without having to use a BM gem, which is cool. And you can also run all those auras for high armor and max resists, a huge plus for this build.

What would your 6l be? Would it be incinerate - faster cast - echo - lmp - pen - fp?


One question: how does the elreon mod work? Is it -8 to base cost before multipliers, or just an additive -8 from the final cost? It would seem to be the latter as otherwise it would make casting free, and you having 2 of them rings with the mod would also suggest so.

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ancalagon3000 wrote:

What would your 6l be? Would it be incinerate - faster cast - echo - lmp - pen - fp?

As mentioned, added chaos damage is one of the biggest dps boosts you can get for incinerate. So you definitely want this even in your 4L.
Another very good option is added lightning damage to shock enemies.

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One question: how does the elreon mod work? Is it -8 to base cost before multipliers, or just an additive -8 from the final cost? It would seem to be the latter as otherwise it would make casting free, and you having 2 of them rings with the mod would also suggest so.

It's substracted from total skill cost, including multipliers. Normally, these rings and amulets only work for a short amount of time when rolling a new character.
However, due do incinerate's uniquely low flat mana cost (which is countered by its insane cast speed), you can actually pull of a 0 cost 4L incinerate :)

In response to several exchanges about links from ancalagon3000 and therealjcool:

The setup for Incinerate is still not fixed in my head, right now, I run it with LMP-FP-Echo because it’s both enough for the content I do and cheap enough to afford it with 2 Elreon’s pieces.

The thing here is we want to keep the no cost, with 3 Elreon’s pieces (perfect rolls), it means the maximum final mana cost of incinerate must be under 24 which is a 2.67 total multiplier. This is also where PA/RF combo helps me a lot, it’s a mana free booster.
Therefore, I consider in priority supports with low multiplier, as an example, therealjcool mentioned both added chaos and added lightning, I’d definitely go with the second one as it’s a 130% instead of a 140% (and yes, while it’s half flat, shock will make up for it).

I explored this linking further already and there are several possibilities depending on setup and gear.
- You can afford any 4L with The Vertex helmet I mentioned already.
- With a RF setup, you have direct access to both Mental Fortitude and Dynamo wheels which represents 20% reduced cost for 3 points and 32% for 6 points. This may require a high level or can be done dropping Sovereignty.
- With a block setup such as the one therealjcool is planning, using the Cybil’s Paw can raise the affordable cost by 8 or 16 with echo but you have to hit something (casting without target will destroy your pool).



Incinerate-LMP-Echo-FC-FP-Emp: x3.82 so 34 base cost, doable with the 6 reduction nodes
Here is what I consider a pure DPS setup, all supports synergize with each other and your output is pure fire damage (except the part from Herald of Ice) so it allow full leach and penetration effectiveness. I have still to test the cost of Incinerate past level 20.

Incinerate-LMP-Echo-FC-ALD-Culling: x2.84 so 26 base cost, doable with 1 reduction point (maybe 2)
This get a mixed damage output, shock might make up for the difference of damage output. As long as you can curse with Elemental Weakness, it’ll be insane.

I'll push this into the guide when I get the remaining pieces of information I need.

Thanks for the nice overview.
However, you overlook the main benefit of added chaos damage.
It's chaos damage!

Most - if not all - mobs in maps are resistant to elemental attacks. Some also have very high energy shield and lower life pools. In both cases, using added chaos damage is great. It will keep your dps high even against totally fire-resistant monsters and it will make mincemeat of rares with high ES and low life pools.
I'd say you sort of have to have either added chaos or fire pen, since you will have a hard time against fire resistant bosses otherwise. Unless you dual-curse or something.

BTW, I just re-rolled. Got all the gems and a cheap corrupted Cybil's to boot! Excited hehehe :)

Edit: Just saw, you've listed added chaos dmg with a 140% multiplier. However, it has 130%. Which makes it more attractive still :P


Edit2: Three Dragons unique could also be a nice addition, especially early to midgame. I'm gonna use mine from lvl35 with echo - added chaos - lmp, should be "fun" :D