[1.2.0] Dreamfeather: Post-Mortem

Meh can't be arsed. Enjoy your build Tempada.

peace,

-Boem-

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Boem wrote:

Meh can't be arsed. Enjoy your build Tempada.

:/

I was hoping for an explanation.

"

Tempada wrote:

"

Boem wrote:

Meh can't be arsed. Enjoy your build Tempada.

:/

I was hoping for an explanation.

Take 2x 2.15 ele foils (don't even have to have high values of ele dps)

Spec yourself to roughky 20/25k evasion (plenty of evasion stacked with ondars and acro + phase acro)

proceed to put saved points into more dps.

Don't tell me you don't reach roughly 50k dps like this.

Your whole argument is based on the fact that the blade becomes "okaish" not even superb, when you double wield them. Sorry, but i can't take that seriously, when your simply doubling the %elemental damage received from the sword.

More so since you can get better results for lower investment and more gear freedom by just going double 2.15 foils and going dps route + medium defenses.

Hell if this is what is stopping GGG from buffing the sword (the option to double wield them doubling the unique modifier) i would go as far as to remove that option completely to make this sword able to be utilized more freely in a wider variety of builds.

peace,

-Boem-

(no offense Tempada but your build is "medium" strength imo, and when you take in the investment to make it work, well it simply does not justify it.)

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Boem wrote:

Take 2x 2.15 ele foils (don't even have to have high values of ele dps)

Spec yourself to roughky 20/25k evasion (plenty of evasion stacked with ondars and acro + phase acro)

proceed to put saved points into more dps.

Don't tell me you don't reach roughly 50k dps like this.

I don't have any swords like that, but I'd honestly be shocked if they increased dps in a non-crit build by that much (and I'm surprised I don't see more elemental Cleave builds if that's the case). Would you try to fit in a Herald gem on top of Anger, Wrath, and Grace by heading to Sovereignty?

Did you look at my build page? I can hit with over 42k dps regularly in a 6L and over 65k dps if I use Concentrated Effect. Isn't this comparable to your suggestion?

"

Your whole argument is based on the fact that the blade becomes "okaish" not even superb, when you double wield them. Sorry, but i can't take that seriously, when your simply doubling the %elemental damage received from the sword.

Yikes, no one ever said Dreamfeather makes a superb weapon. But it can be used in a well-rounded, albeit very specific, dual wield build.

"

(no offense Tempada but your build is "medium" strength imo, and when you take in the investment to make it work, well it simply does not justify it.)

I'm not offended; it's definitely medium strength and I didn't intend to advertise it in any other way. But when you take into account the cost (Dreamfeathers + Alpha's Howl + 5L QotF + Atziri's Step + Elreon accessory + filler gear is not exactly budget, though it's not breaking the bank), extra defense, and the crazy movement speed potential on top of ~30k dps (which can be further boosted by a Jade Flask, Atziri's Promise, Vaal Haste, and even Concentrated Effect if you don't mind the decreased AoE), it's a good build. Not a killer build. A good, solid, fun build.

I've NEVER played a build that regularly and comfortably hits with 50k dps. Anything over 20k dps feels good to me as long as the defenses are there, and perhaps my impressions of what's good are colored by playing budget, underdog, and typically non-crit builds. When I hit 25k dps with Dreamfeathers, I thought it was worth sharing. When I hit over 30k dps, I was impressed. When I hit over 60k dps with Concentrated Effect and Multistrike (two gems I don't normally use in my 30k dps setup), I was smiling. Then I hit over 100k dps with all my buffs on, which was thrilling. Maybe all of this is mediocre to you, but it's pretty exciting for me.

And did I mention dat movement speed?

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Tempada wrote:

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Boem wrote:

Take 2x 2.15 ele foils (don't even have to have high values of ele dps)

Spec yourself to roughky 20/25k evasion (plenty of evasion stacked with ondars and acro + phase acro)

proceed to put saved points into more dps.

Don't tell me you don't reach roughly 50k dps like this.

I don't have any swords like that, but I'd honestly be shocked if they increased dps in a non-crit build by that much (and I'm surprised I don't see more elemental Cleave builds if that's the case). Would you try to fit in a Herald gem on top of Anger, Wrath, and Grace by heading to Sovereignty?

Remove grace, put in HoT and HoI

And enjoy +100 or more flat ele dps, then proceed to scale with AS like before.

Ele cleaves easily breach 30+k (non crit)

And the cost you listed is nowhere near an underdog build. I made builds like that, roughly 1.5 exalt worth.

One of my guild mates does nothing else then builds like that.

Your build with the listed items ranges from 6 exalts (if lucky) to 10 exalts. Depending on time in the league and luck factor in crafting (elreon ring). That's nowhere near "underdog" or cheap.

For a similar price you can easily make better builds, which is exactly the point. The investment does not warrant the end-result.

And the movement speed, yeah, any ranged char with QotF is having that movement speed. My ranger in the one-week race had 130% movement speed without Qotf. Really nothing to be impressed about with a melee build, since you have whirling or leap slam at your disposal. It's basically a wasted stat with a fast attack speed build, at least it benefits leap slam in your case.(again not really a selling points for the sword since it draws that buff from Qotf)

It appears to me, you have no idea that flat attack speed is the stat that scales ele cleavers.

Going from a 2.00 to a 2.01 sword with a dual wielding ele cleaver will give like 1000 to 2000 dps depending on the passive tree.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Boem wrote:

Your build with the listed items ranges from 6 exalts (if lucky) to 10 exalts. Depending on time in the league and luck factor in crafting (elreon ring). That's nowhere near "underdog" or cheap.

By "underdog" I meant builds containing skills and items that aren't typically used.

"

For a similar price you can easily make better builds, which is exactly the point. The investment does not warrant the end-result.

"Better" is subjective. A solid mix of defenses, dps, and fun was totally worth the price for me. I'm really not trying to push my build on anyone, I just wanted to see what Dreamfeather could do, I was pleasantly surprised, and I thought I'd share my findings.

"

And the movement speed, yeah, any ranged char with QotF is having that movement speed.

Well, not quite since most other builds, even QotF ones, don't need to stack so much evasion.

And I know, who cares about movement speed when you have Leap Slam and Lightning Warp? I dunno, I find myself moving around by running more than anything else, and it's VERY rare that I make a build with over 50% movement speed. When I got 118% movement speed with QotF, it felt (and still feels) amazing. Besides, it's often easier to run than leap or warp about in tight spaces, and movement speed does boost the effectiveness of movement skills.

"

Going from a 2.00 to a 2.01 sword with a dual wielding ele cleaver will give like 1000 to 2000 dps depending on the passive tree.

I take a 4% increased attack speed node and barely see a dps increase with 2.0 aps weapons, yet changing the aps value by that smaller amount can have huge ramifications? Perhaps when your dps is already so high that the extra dps doesn't matter much anyway.

^the %attack speed multiplies your base attack speed.

So yes, getting a higher base attack speed has huge impact on your %ias increases from the passive tree.

Everything in this game is scaled from your basic weapon core stats.

That's why daggers are OP etc.

And that's the same reason why 2.15 foils are OP for ele cleave/ST, so much so that i would rather utilize a 2.15 foil without ele dps then a 2.00 foil with t1 ele rolls on it.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Boem wrote:

^the %attack speed multiplies your base attack speed.

Yes, I understand how this works, I was just poking fun at your example. I'd like to test it out eventually and see if I can get a "budget" ele Cleave build that comfortably lands over 50k dps (by "comfortably" I mean one that doesn't feel gimped by running Concentrated Effect and one that doesn't make your anus clench when you see an elemental reflect mob). If it really is so simple, I feel like there should be more threads on it. The only other ele Cleave thread I know of that's been updated for 1.3 is VictorDoom's guide, and I can get higher dps (although he has more Cleave radius, life, and Purity of Lightning to mitigate reflect damage). I wonder what his dps would be with 2.16 aps swords, and I wonder how worrisome reflect would become... In terms of non-crit Spectral Throw builds, I see people reaching 15k dps and being thrilled about it. That's so sad in comparison to what it once was, but at least they get the benefits of playing ranged.

Edit: So I switched up my Dreamfeather build and now get about 50k dps in a 6L and 40k dps in a 5L... without Concentrated Effect and before flask or Vaal skill buffs. I've moved some points into the Templar area so I have increased Cleave radius and damage (Amplify), plus I regularly shock, so my tooltip dps is lower than what I actually hit (unless Cleave tooltip dps for duel wield builds is incorrect and not in my favor). I'm even able to get rid of the Elreon accessory with the new tree, which cuts down on the potential cost of the build. And yet I don't have worthwhile damage, defense, speed, and uniqueness factor for the investment? I don't believe, not when there are plenty of popular cookie cutter 40k 6L dps builds going around with worse defenses at a similar price point.

+1 for Tempada's DW Dreamfeather build. I played/playing it and now level 85.

Just wondering/speculating., in the last State of the Exile episode. Nick from GGG put the spotlight on Dreamfeather as well as QotF. As a fan of this sword, "hell yeah".

So I was thinking/finding maybe GGG considers Dreamfeather already good sword for a reason we haven't discovered yet. Maybe this:



Low life build. I don't know much about LL (actually I practically know nothing). But If understood it right, with 30k evasion (what i have now), you'll have +15k. so 45k evasion. Maybe one can even push this further with some other unique/s. Attack Speed is also good/great right? However, I dunno how much DPS loss that drawback mod take..

edit:
tried to test it by linking blood magic to my two heralds, with level 18 grace, my evasion only got to 31k. Probably due to Alpha's having a +2 aura and 700 evasion vs 300 evasion on Starkonja's Head.

Hmm, that 50% reduce dmg is too much huh? Well at least you have access to more evasion for a helm that's probably only been used on Animate Guardian (at least from what I've seen so far).

Still curious though as to why Dreamfeather is high tier in term of drop rarity.

"

Lyralei wrote:

I'm not going to elaborate on what may or may not come out in the future but you should understand that I generally know things you probably don't well ahead of time and this sword was designed with those factors in mind.

Did these "factors" already come to light?

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ManicCompression wrote:

Just wondering/speculating., in the last State of the Exile episode. Nick from GGG put the spotlight on Dreamfeather as well as QotF. As a fan of this sword, "hell yeah".

Do you remember what they said?

"

So I was thinking/finding maybe GGG considers Dreamfeather already good sword for a reason we haven't discovered yet.

I like to hope so! Maybe the community-designed unique (whatever happened to that?) will further boost Dreamfeather's usefulness.