[1.2.0] Dreamfeather: Post-Mortem

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PolarisOrbit wrote:

Has your opinion of it changed over the months or after getting to use it in game? Is there a post-mortem post-mortem?

Ambivalent.

I'd imagine we should lower the required evasion needed for the bonus and it would be good enough.

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Lyralei wrote:

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PolarisOrbit wrote:

Has your opinion of it changed over the months or after getting to use it in game? Is there a post-mortem post-mortem?

Ambivalent.

I'd imagine we should lower the required evasion needed for the bonus and it would be good enough.

First of all, thank you Lyralei for making this sword, while it might not live up to your original expectations, ever since it's release i wanted to toy around with it.

And now i am! =D

The bolted part was exactly my first impression while toying around with it in the new torment league, i must admit the character is only lvl 67 atm and i think i underestimated how high you can push the evasion value.

I thought reaching 45000 evasion would be "okaish", appears i am DEAD wrong on that front :D.

And that is actually quite troublesome for this sword, since it gives a measly 100% increased damage at that threshold.

Arguably, it divides it's efficiency over both a defensive and offensive front, but even then i feel you are correct with your assessment of lowering the value of the eva=%dps value.

I would even go as far as to say it should be lowered to a value of 300 instead of 450. 30000 evasion still seems like an extremely high value to spec into evasion imo. The reason i say this is because i reach a current value of evasion of 15000 with this gear.



And i consider this to be by no means "cheap" or easily accessible gear. (obviously, my own opinion)

I will see how this build continue's i still have a lot of leveling to do :).

If i kill atziri with it, which will be one of my goals, it will be a homage to you and your sword.

Peace and by the gods do i hope you can push for a re-evaluation of that evasion=%dps value,

-Boem-

(on a side-note Lyralei, i just did a reflect/ele weakness map with rougly 45 all of my resistances in that map with a ele buzzsaw spec that has no RT and it felt like a testament to your original design!
Power with defensive attributes, i did not rip in that map once! <.< >.> <.<)

-El bump-

edit : Another option Lyralei would be to push the % damage to 2% per 450 evasion. Arguably, the current iteration of the sword loses a lot of attraction because a single node can give up to 10% damage which would require an increase of 4500 evasion with a single evasion node for this sword to be worthwhile, maybe a 20% damage increase at this value would be more tempting?

Yup, too little damage for such a big investment. Add that it has really low base phy damage, and there you go.

Bad sword is bad.

Nothing more than a skin transfer.

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Boem wrote:

I thought reaching 45000 evasion would be "okaish", appears i am DEAD wrong on that front :D.

Ouch, it would be insane to hit that number! I have killer gear, take many evasion nodes on the tree, and "only" have an evasion rating of 38k.

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And that is actually quite troublesome for this sword, since it gives a measly 100% increased damage at that threshold.

It's a very niche sword, one that I would love to see get a buff, but it's not as bad as you make it sound (at least when you use two of them in an elemental-based build), and it's certainly not

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narg62 wrote:

Nothing more than a skin transfer.

I've been trying to see how far I can push a dual Dreamfeather build, and I can, with a 6L setup and Vaal Haste + Jade Flask of Reflexes + Atziri's Promise, hit around 120k dps, no joke. However, that value is useless for general mapping in part because it requires Concentrated Effect, which cuts down AoE so severely that it's like using a single target skill (great for bosses, though). In general play with a 5L damage setup and without Concentrated Effect, my dps is around 32k. I can get around 42k dps in a 6L, although I lose survivability/convenience because it means removing Life Leech and popping potions instead. My tree makes for a very solid elemental Cleave build, assuming you have the time and drive to take it to about level 87. Even with lesser gear, you can do quite well (over 20k dps in a 4L, and good survivability on top of that). Thing is, you have to use a very specific tree, you need very specific gear, and your damage numbers are limited by gem power and evasion rating.

I LOVE that Dreamfeather is a build-enabling unique, but it could use a little more love from the devs in the form of a dps buff. I understand that many players dismiss the sword as a throw-away item because it's underwhelming in physical-based builds and when paired with a shield. The build limitations are frustrating, and the possibilities of this sword could be greatly expanded by lowering the 450 evasion rating requirement or by increasing the % increased attack damage.

Hey, I didn't see this thread so I posted my impressions about the unique a new one !

Here's the link to the thread : http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1174121/page/1/#p9831252

Here's the message :

Hello













As far as I can read in this post it seems we all agree ;)

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Tempada wrote:

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Boem wrote:

I thought reaching 45000 evasion would be "okaish", appears i am DEAD wrong on that front :D.

Ouch, it would be insane to hit that number! I have killer gear, take many evasion nodes on the tree, and "only" have an evasion rating of 38k.

"

And that is actually quite troublesome for this sword, since it gives a measly 100% increased damage at that threshold.

It's a very niche sword, one that I would love to see get a buff, but it's not as bad as you make it sound (at least when you use two of them in an elemental-based build), and it's certainly not

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narg62 wrote:

Nothing more than a skin transfer.

I've been trying to see how far I can push a dual Dreamfeather build, and I can, with a 6L setup and Vaal Haste + Jade Flask of Reflexes + Atziri's Promise, hit around 120k dps, no joke. However, that value is useless for general mapping in part because it requires Concentrated Effect, which cuts down AoE so severely that it's like using a single target skill (great for bosses, though). In general play with a 5L damage setup and without Concentrated Effect, my dps is around 32k. I can get around 42k dps in a 6L, although I lose survivability/convenience because it means removing Life Leech and popping potions instead. My tree makes for a very solid elemental Cleave build, assuming you have the time and drive to take it to about level 87. Even with lesser gear, you can do quite well (over 20k dps in a 4L, and good survivability on top of that). Thing is, you have to use a very specific tree, you need very specific gear, and your damage numbers are limited by gem power and evasion rating.

I LOVE that Dreamfeather is a build-enabling unique, but it could use a little more love from the devs in the form of a dps buff. I understand that many players dismiss the sword as a throw-away item because it's underwhelming in physical-based builds and when paired with a shield. The build limitations are frustrating, and the possibilities of this sword could be greatly expanded by lowering the 450 evasion rating requirement or by increasing the % increased attack damage.

Now try out double prismatic eclipse with that double wield ele set-up and get back to me :').

Not dismissing your feedback, but you saying i make this sword look worse then it is is not really the case.

I am being realistic when it comes to power of passive tree nodes/other options available and the actual investment required to get "something" to work with this sword.

Me and my guildy recently came to the conclusion it might "only" be worthwhile on an elemental hit build and that's about it. All other skills you could pair with this sword yield better results with a mediocre rare substitute or with a low value unique.(and that is, after massive evasion investment already limiting your possibility's)

Peace,

-Boem-

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Boem wrote:

Now try out double prismatic eclipse with that double wield ele set-up and get back to me :').

I'm really confused by this comment. I just tested it out and the damage doesn't even come close to what I can do with two Dreamfeathers. What colors? With two 3G Prismatics I get about 18k 5L dps (compared to 32k dps with Dreamfeathers). If I switched up the build to get more damage with Prismatic, I would lose a bunch of evasion that helps me to survive and it would take a lot of skill points to reach comparable damage.

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Me and my guildy recently came to the conclusion it might "only" be worthwhile on an elemental hit build and that's about it. All other skills you could pair with this sword yield better results with a mediocre rare substitute or with a low value unique.(and that is, after massive evasion investment already limiting your possibility's)

I totally agree with limited possibilities, but Elemental Hit? Is that better than elemental Cleave, especially considering that it's not an AoE skill? Elemental Cleave is great with Dreamfeathers + Queen of the Forest. Cheap (well, depending on league I guess), decent damage even in a 4L, solid survivability, crazy speed... It's unique and worthwhile. Even with two "mediocre rare substitutes" such as

I'd be hard-pressed to make a better build.

I don't disagree that Dreamfeather could use a change, I just disagree that the mods always provide measly damage. In very niche circumstances, the sword is great because it gives a really nice balance of damage and survivability. I'd like to see it become a little less niche.

From Tempada's post it sounds like Evasion flasks are the key to making this sword work. How many does it take to keep up the Evasion buff most of the time? Is 3 flasks enough?

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PolarisOrbit wrote:

From Tempada's post it sounds like Evasion flasks are the key to making this sword work. How many does it take to keep up the Evasion buff most of the time? Is 3 flasks enough?

I'm confused again, haha. I only use one evasion flask, and I use it to increase dps against bosses and sometimes rare monsters.

My dps with auras active in a 5L Cleave setup is 32.5k. Using this evasion flask

my dps jumps to 40k. Now this is a particularly good flask, but any Jade Flask of Reflexes is going to significantly increase dps.

The trick, to my build at least, isn't flasks. The first trick is being able to run Grace + Anger + Wrath (possible with reduced mana nodes, a Reduced Mana gem, and Alpha's Howl) and eventually taking Inner Force on the skill tree. The second trick is low mana costs (no higher than lvl 5 Cleave) and not having to grab any mana nodes on the tree. Instead of mana nodes, I use mana leech on one piece of gear, an Elreon accessory with -8 to Mana Cost of Skills, and a lvl 4 Clarity linked to Reduced Mana and Blood Magic. The third trick is selectively stacking evasion on the tree and wearing Queen of the Forest. If it wasn't for Queen of the Forest, I don't think I would have considered making a Dreamfeather build. I mean, the build works perfectly fine with any high evasion chest, but the QotF movement speed bonus turns it into something special. In what other build is it worth it to stack evasion to such an extent? In what other build that allows you to tackle all maps do you get to move so fast on your feet?