Block and spell block OP

Block is OP as fuck,but you know, this item
is downright REDICULOUS.I mean playing palace with -demons -vulnerability -additional projectiles - extra as lightning -24% -max resists and having whole packs of voidvearers,titty bitches and ghosts shooting at me,and was very confortably watching PORN on alt tab,waiting for them to die with tempest shield :P.You can still die easily at 3 bosses but THATS IT.

On the other hand i had a non aegis block build with rediculous ES(13K) and ES regeneration.While he could not AFK like the aegis guy,he was better against bosses due to his massive pool of ES,which is something aegis cannot provide.

Also i beleive that with the proper build and playstyle,using perma immortal call and perma 92% ma resists,shaffels can be as OP as aegis if not more.

So generally,yeah block is op as fuck,and needs a change in mechanics -50% mitigation is a good proposal- but at the same time raise the block chance to 90%,and leave the avoid all damage mechanic to evasion-doge as it should be.
And yeah,remove aegis altogether.You can AFK in 99.9% of the content with very little currency investment,even though there are better builds for counting the hardest bosses,aegis is downright the best item against every other situation

Taking 1/4th the damage of normal builds, even normal builds that stack tons and tons of defenses and health is not OP at all...

Not even a little bit...

its because armor and evasion are subject to scaling and entropic risk.

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raics wrote:

Within reason, man, within reason.

And, if someone threw a truck at you you'd take the same damage with or without the shield, it would mitigate nothing. So, you either block it all or get squashed, no middle ground... unless your arm breaks, I can hear you say. Sure, I'm game for that too, let's have a cripple mechanics like in Fallout :)

What about proposed new block mechanics, like them, hate them, meh?

How is there no middle ground?

What I'm saying is, block would be much better if it was done like armour.
Then, shield bases would matter, bigger shields would mitigate more damage but grant some movement speed penalty (like Lioneye's Remorse).

Plenty of what it can be done, this situation now looks like braindead mechanics made in a hurry, when we take a look at armour.


@astraph
Block sure seems OP with AA, because the item alone is embarrassingly OP.
Also, what makes you think that one cannot have a 10k+ life/ES with Aegis? That's just not true.

And, I've yet to see a build that can do what AA build can (disregarding the cost of build).
So yes, even with 1000 ex budget, there's no build that can do what AA build can. Or is there?
That Saffell's is just a paper one, until I see it in action...

You say there are builds better than AA for hardest bosses? I say there isn't, not even close.

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tinko92 wrote:

@astraph
Block sure seems OP with AA, because the item alone is embarrassingly OP.
Also, what makes you think that one cannot have a 10k+ life/ES with Aegis? That's just not true.

And, I've yet to see a build that can do what AA build can (disregarding the cost of build).
So yes, even with 1000 ex budget, there's no build that can do what AA build can. Or is there?
That Saffell's is just a paper one, until I see it in action...

You say there are builds better than AA for hardest bosses? I say there isn't, not even close.

Yeah i guess u can use kaoms with aegis...As far as ES goes,my character was played a while ago where you couldnt stack 20K armour just from auras,so it was ipossible to reach that amount of ES with aegis,since u had to spend passives for armour and use hybrid gear.So back then i could make a case that ES block tanks could be better of without aegis,but with the current situation you are propably right.
As for saffels,yeah it is just paper,but i am pretty sure it will work with a build that i have in mind,but ATM i am too bored to level a scion to try it.

Now as for other builds doing the hardest bosses,we had that discussion awhile ago but i was posting from another acount.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9DMUbqHlZY

Here is a double creamtorium with 20% - resistances,34% extra damage,vulnerability,pretty much the hardest you can get,nuking them simultaneously with an ultra crap 700 ES 5L chest.So for solo playing,pre VP nerf even aegis could not compete with a god tier geared flicker.Post nerf,until somebody gets the new OP gloves,you still are right though :P

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tinko92 wrote:

How is there no middle ground?

What I'm saying is, block would be much better if it was done like armour.
Then, shield bases would matter, bigger shields would mitigate more damage but grant some movement speed penalty (like Lioneye's Remorse).

There isn't really, if you managed to block an attack and your shield arm held up it cushioned the blow and you take no damage except to fatigue (nonexistent mechanic in PoE and ridiculous even to discuss with multistrike in the game).

And if the hit was so trong that your arm broke, I guess taking what damage broke through will be the least of your problems. And it's possible pretty much only with blunt strikes, arrows and bladed weapons can't do that to you easily, not enough momentum.

There's also deflecting, deflected blows can't hurt you at all unless you deflect them on your leg or head but that can't really count as a successful block.

...
Anyway, this is all a load of tripe, this is a game and shield can't work like armor because it would either synergize well with it but do nothing for evasion, or would work well with evasion and be op with armor. And I can't really trust GGG to hit the golden middle ground so I'd prefer not having to test that.

Yup, I'd be perfectly happy with that half block penalty from the back and cooldown, it would work good, introduce new gameplay factor - and be pretty damn realistic too.

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tinko92 wrote:

What I'm saying is, block would be much better if it was done like armour.

No what you should actually mean to say is armor would be mush butter if it was dumb like blotch.

High block + high evasion + acrobatics + increased acrobatics nodes + phase acrobatics + Ondar's = So cool.


Still get shredded by Void Bearers and Flamethrower snakes still shred me though :(

@astraph

Although I don't know much about ES AA builds, but with a 1500/500+ chest and other fine gear pieces it should be easy to get 10k+ armour with Determination only, which replenishes 400 ES on block, and when necessary, pop up flasks.
Or, get all ES gear, ~500 armour beside shield (belt, gloves, helmet) and run Grace + Determination. DPS would be somewhat lower than with hybrid gear without Grace, but survivability would be better.

With new tree and new AA, it's almost the same to get the amount of armour one could have with previous tree and legacy AA.

I know his videos, I love them, especially the Courtyard one.

But, that's not really a good comparison, you might as well compare AA builds with ranged.
It's about survivability, and Poutsos himself can say that FS isn't good at all in that.

Of course AA can't compete with DPS shields/off-hands, in terms of clear speed. And frankly, that the only thing where AA falls a short.

I really cannot believe that monstrosity exists, and the newest "nerf" is ridiculous... Embarrassing.

"

raics wrote:

Spoiler

There isn't really, if you managed to block an attack and your shield arm held up it cushioned the blow and you take no damage except to fatigue (nonexistent mechanic in PoE and ridiculous even to discuss with multistrike in the game).

And if the hit was so trong that your arm broke, I guess taking what damage broke through will be the least of your problems. And it's possible pretty much only with blunt strikes, arrows and bladed weapons can't do that to you easily, not enough momentum.

There's also deflecting, deflected blows can't hurt you at all unless you deflect them on your leg or head but that can't really count as a successful block.

...
Anyway, this is all a load of tripe, this is a game and shield can't work like armor because it would either synergize well with it but do nothing for evasion, or would work well with evasion and be op with armor. And I can't really trust GGG to hit the golden middle ground so I'd prefer not having to test that.

Yup, I'd be perfectly happy with that half block penalty from the back and cooldown, it would work good, introduce new gameplay factor - and be pretty damn realistic too.

Why couldn't it be done like armour? The harder the hit, the less you mitigate.
It's not the same if I hit you (and you block) with a maul or a sword, it hurts to block a maul, you might even end up on the ground, most likely even.

I haven't said it should be like in real life, that would be pointless. But it could be done more logically, like armour is.

Why exactly would it be that better for armour than evasion? It's the same downgrade overall.
And since plenty of people argued that evasion is better than armour, the end result wouldn't be like you've said.


But yeah, back penalty and a cooldown would be fine, or an improvement at least.
Cooldown looks splendid, really.

"

tinko92 wrote:

Why couldn't it be done like armour? The harder the hit, the less you mitigate.
It's not the same if I hit you (and you block) with a maul or a sword, it hurts to block a maul, you might even end up on the ground, most likely even.

I haven't said it should be like in real life, that would be pointless. But it could be done more logically, like armour is.

Why exactly would it be that better for armour than evasion? It's the same downgrade overall.
And since plenty of people argued that evasion is better than armour, the end result wouldn't be like you've said.


But yeah, back penalty and a cooldown would be fine, or an improvement at least.
Cooldown looks splendid, really.

Jeez, after all that writing in 'armor is OP' thread :)

Because gear with 'damage taken as elemental' significantly cuts incoming physical damage, making your armor much better, add there block mitigation (which will have to be really efficient in order to work with builds that use no armor when exposed to big hits) and endurance charges and you got capped physical mitigation easy-peasy.

The same would go for blocking spells with that mechanic, if you got overcapped resists it will be super-effective, if you don't - it will do jack shit.

Percentage and diminishing mitigation is an ultra-effective combo, percentage and two diminishing mitigations would be something to tell your grandkids about.