Block and spell block OP

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tinko92 wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

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tinko92 wrote:

And that makes it OP?

probably.

Just more affirmation really. Everyone knows how awesome block is...

Good =/= overpowered

happy now?

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raics wrote:

Come on, you were saying it's too good yourself recently, don't tease these nice people, you naughty boy, you.

Doesn't need any elaboration probably, a block build is taking four times less damage than a 2Hander and dishing out maybe two times less, that's a pretty big power gap.

Nope, I've never said block is OP, never.

Block is excellent, but not OP.

In an infinite time table you would be right about four times less damage, and that's only with max block builds.

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tinko92 wrote:

Nope, I've never said block is OP, never.

Block is excellent, but not OP.

In an infinite time table you would be right about four times less damage, and that's only with max block builds.

Ok, that's fine, I don't claim it's exactly OP either, just a little bit too good.

It's probably even less than one fourth of damage received over time if we account for defenses and enchantments on shield, and for less reflected damage because of lower dps.

And you don't really have twice as much damage with 2Handers either, I was being generous as usual to prevent irrelevant nitpicking.

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raics wrote:

Ok, that's fine, I don't claim it's exactly OP either, just a little bit too good.

It's probably even less than one fourth of damage received over time if we account for defenses and enchantments on shield, and for less reflected damage because of lower dps.

And you don't really have twice as much damage with 2Handers either, I was being generous as usual to prevent irrelevant nitpicking.

By too good I agree, but in a way it mitigates damage.
It's contradictory to the armour mechanism GGG has made, armour mechanism is logical, but block is nowhere near logical point.

However, going by your 1/4 less damage in a long period of time (~infinite) is pointless in a game like this, with the spike damage as it is.

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tinko92 wrote:

By too good I agree, but in a way it mitigates damage.
It's contradictory to the armour mechanism GGG has made, armour mechanism is logical, but block is nowhere near logical point.

However, going by your 1/4 less damage in a long period of time (~infinite) is pointless in a game like this, with the spike damage as it is.

Well, as long as we're dealing with strings of damage that wouldn't kill our blocker we can make the comparison.

Anyway, I'm not really a huge fan of the way blocking is done in TQ and GD, if you blocked it you should take no damage, there's nothing behind the shield but air.

What I would like to see isn't boring number tweaking, I'd like something gamechanging, for instance this:
"you can block in the front 180 degree arc with full effectiveness and from back arc with half your block percentage"
That would put new value to positioning in combat, potentially changing the whole blocker playstyle, and, as we saw from that new monster blinding attack, the game has the mechanics to handle it.

I'd also like to see, say, a 250ms cooldown on block, blocking near-simultaneous attacks is plain ridiculous,

That's also illogical.

I can throw a truck on you, you block it with your shield, no damage taken, really?

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tinko92 wrote:

That's also illogical.

I can throw a truck on you, you block it with your shield, no damage taken, really?

Within reason, man, within reason.

And, if someone threw a truck at you you'd take the same damage with or without the shield, it would mitigate nothing. So, you either block it all or get squashed, no middle ground... unless your arm breaks, I can hear you say. Sure, I'm game for that too, let's have a cripple mechanics like in Fallout :)

What about proposed new block mechanics, like them, hate them, meh?

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Rozari wrote:

Every invasion top players using shields, nerf it plox.

Invasion is a league that forces players to have as much defense as possible. People have been constantly complaining about the stupid damage of some Invasion bosses and about builds being pigeonholed in order to at least have a hope of surviving.

From all weapon setups, the 1-hander + shield setup is the most defense-oriented.

Your logic is... not very logical.

"Problem" of block here is the same as "problem" with reses, though in case of reses current "solution" is different.

As our dear GGGers don't want anybody to faceroll anything, they calculate damage dealt by monsters that way, that even reaching defense cap threshold ppl steal receive suitable damage dealt by monsters.

In case of elemental damage, every build can easily reach resists cap and in lot of cases exceed it. So elemental damage dealt by monsters is so great, than even overcapping resists you can feel it and for some of new monsters you have to have overcapped resists or GTFO.

As a result, every build have to have minimum capped resists and as much overcapped as is able.

In case of blocked damage, it's different, because only fraction of builds can allow theirselves to cap block and some don't block at all.

So, this time damage can't be calculated in assumption, that everybody has capped block so those, who has, are "OP".

And solution to this is IMO not so straight as in "nerf block", but rather redesign how mitigation/avoidance techniques like armor, evasion, block, spellblock and resists works here, because at the moment, it seems, that they don't work in homogeneous way.

Like: why armor works like sheet of papers? why blocked damage doesn't do any harm? my shieldarm should pain... why my shield can't block those mages, until I wear some strange magneta boots? and this little witch can block hammer attack with those 3 sticks sticked together with the same effectiveness as my tower shield? why I can evade arrow, but not fireball? I'm ranger, why I can't evade fu** traps? and what the heck are physical spells, we are mages or blacksmits? etc. etc.

My humble solution: Wielding two handed weapon grants 10% chance to block aswell.
OR
Successful blocking mitigates not 100% damage but 50% for example.