One Week Nemesis Race Infographic

Love the game, but i think everybody goes IR because actual evasion is crap. Evade, evade, evade, stun, 1 shot dead.

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Qarl wrote:

There are some balance concerns in the stats which we will look at addressing at the new content and league cycle.

Scions were prevalent in the one week league, and take a lot of the same space as Witches and Shadows, reducing the numbers in these classes. Shadow appears to need attention specifically.

While the keystones used were influenced a little by players following specific examples, clearly Iron Reflexes is too dominant in this short format.

We will also be specifically looking at death rates for specific areas.

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sidtherat wrote:

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TylerRand wrote:

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Qarl wrote:

There are some balance concerns in the stats which we will look at addressing at the new content and league cycle.

Scions were prevalent in the one week league, and take a lot of the same space as Witches and Shadows, reducing the numbers in these classes. Shadow appears to need attention specifically.

While the keystones used were influenced a little by players following specific examples, clearly Iron Reflexes is too dominant in this short format.

We will also be specifically looking at death rates for specific areas.

Please, please take a look at evangelists. They are out of this world in terms of balance along with chimereals.

It seems plain wrong that they are able to attack any point on screen from anywhere. The burst damage this can amount to is very high and neigh impossible to evade manually.

+1

these are out of the line and the whole idea of physical spells (that is not-magical magic) is ruining the integrity of mechanics

easiest way to fight PACK of badly rolled evangelists? Conversion Trap and let them kill each other

GGG twisted their game so much I wonder how will the make sense of everything.

Marauders going STR heavy with wands and Iron Will to cast spells that do phys dmg. (Ethereal knifes)

Cool when you pull it off. A nightmare to balance.

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Qarl wrote:

There are some balance concerns in the stats which we will look at addressing at the new content and league cycle.

Scions were prevalent in the one week league, and take a lot of the same space as Witches and Shadows, reducing the numbers in these classes. Shadow appears to need attention specifically.

While the keystones used were influenced a little by players following specific examples, clearly Iron Reflexes is too dominant in this short format.

We will also be specifically looking at death rates for specific areas.

Class creation is actually even spread between all.

Past lvl 80 is where Scions trumps Shadows and Witches in Path of Life nodes. (in a hardcore setting that is)

IR being dominant is intended I'd say by your own design (phys spells, armor being reliable, projectiles).

What are the alternatives really? EV builds? ES build? In a short frame time too with scarce drops and steep difficulty curves in cruel A3

Not to mention the out of norm monsters that: flicker-discharge, aoe chaos dmg on -resists% here and there, phys aoe spells that ignore block, evasion and capped ele resists.

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Snookdog wrote:

Past lvl 80 is where Scions trumps Shadows and Witches in Path of Life nodes. (in a hardcore setting that is)

No, also much before. Scion can quickly take that big circle of life nodes and worry about other things (i.e. projectile nodes and dps nodes) then, while as a witch you will always struggle and take ages to get to more than a few life nodes. Like I wrote earlier, Nullification or Void Barrier should be moved to the witch tree, VP copied and added to top tree and either flat ES nodes added or the flat ES on items buffed. It's hilariously easy to stack hp and nigh impossible to run ES before your 60s.

Edit: And for anybody saying that it was only a 1 week race, the whole current metagame is shifted towards life.

Whoa now. Lets focus here. Iron Reflexes is the only option for people who : can't spend the money on ES gear, and because pure evasion is not viable in my opinion. (and judging by the amount of people that used it in the race, its randomness isn't very popular)

Nerfing or taking away Iron Reflexes will sorta negate just about every melee build there is. As no self respecting Rauder, Temp, Duelist, Ranger or Shadow runs without it. Its simply necessary to NOT die to trash mobs.

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MyTeacherTouchesMe wrote:

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Snookdog wrote:

Past lvl 80 is where Scions trumps Shadows and Witches in Path of Life nodes. (in a hardcore setting that is)

No, also much before. Scion can quickly take that big circle of life nodes and worry about other things (i.e. projectile nodes and dps nodes) then, while as a witch you will always struggle and take ages to get to more than a few life nodes. Like I wrote earlier, Nullification or Void Barrier should be moved to the witch tree, VP copied and added to top tree and either flat ES nodes added or the flat ES on items buffed. It's hilariously easy to stack hp and nigh impossible to run ES before your 60s.

Edit: And for anybody saying that it was only a 1 week race, the whole current metagame is shifted towards life.

Reading the chart I see people that tried witches/shadow and didn't make it to fabled 60's or, probably, past cruel A3.

And yes, with 3k+ HP you have lot of room to eject your char from game in bad situations. Unless you pull a REETUP. If you know what I mean.

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CorranHorn wrote:

Nerfing or taking away Iron Reflexes will sorta negate just about every melee build there is. As no self respecting Rauder, Temp, Duelist, Ranger or Shadow runs without it. Its simply necessary to NOT die to trash mobs.

Even my fire witch build plans for armor and going through scion life circle to get iron reflexes, at which point I wondered... why not just pull a Iron will fire marauder?

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Great info. Shows a lot of things that should be addressed.

Hailrake would've won if this was a cutthroat race.

edit: RIP Iron Reflexes

Those are nice infographics! However, not to be a damp squib or anything, but the stats don't show anything new that most long-term experienced players would not already have been able to figure out within one play through.

In terms of class breakdown, it's no surprise that the Scion is the most commonly played class. It's starting area is OP. This is never going to change, not unless the skill tree is enlarged further and the center of the tree made less relevant and other classes made more relevant. The only reason that there are even other classes in the top twenty is because this was a party-enabled race, and less effective/competitive builds such as colby's acro melee duelist (no offense colby, it was a good effort) and zeroes' utility freeze miner build (which incidentally will be much less effective now with freeze mine having been nerfed) could just get themselves carried. The only witch in the top twenty wasn't even a traditional caster witch but a trapper instead. if this was a solo race, the class breakdown would be much more biased towards marauders and scions. There wouldn't be any class aside from scions and marauders (and probably a sprinkling of duelists) in the top 20, and ranger would definitely not get top. Especially not with the presence of overtuned act3x mobs such as the ice leapers and undying evangelists.

It's not surprising that the most deadly area is the cruel sceptre of god. Cruel dominus is a huge joke and a massive MASSIVE jump in difficulty. Combined with the FPS issues on the rooftop, I'd much rather fight piety merciless rather than cruel dominus.

IR being incredibly overused has always been the case since CB and this will never ever change unless or until Evasion is made much much better. Nerfing IR further won't change a thing. There is little point in playing an evasion-based build when you have ridiculous physical spells rendering evasion absolutely obsolete. Of course, one can say that a high block, high evasion, acro character would be extremely tanky. HOWEVER, this is an AARPG. Players come here to KILL monsters, not TANK monsters. What's the point in having to invest heavily in more defensive (block) nodes and having to sacrifice so much DPS? The game will not be fun anymore if one has to resort to that route. No, the Acro/Evasion/Shadow part of the tree needs a huge increase in terms of HP nodes. The only thing that can help evasion/acro-based builds right now is an increased damage buffer, which MoM partly contributes, however it's proximity to IR just makes IR the obvious choice instead.

I'm actually rather surprised that 127 people took acrobatics. However, I would be interested in their death rate as well as their "give-up rate" (i give up, this build doesn't work, reroll). Acro has been buffed since CB, however, its completely random nature renders it completely unreliable and thus completely useless in the absence of a healthy amount of damage buffer. This is not to mention its complete and utter uselessness in coping with DoT effects such as corrupting blood. There is no one skill/spell in this game, not since the implementation of chaos resists, that armour users are unable to defend against. But physical spells that deal such high damage completely bypass evasion, and that is a broken mechanic that needs to be altered.

CI has traditionally always been relatively underused in one week races, however this has got to be a new all-time low. 6?! That is completely ridiculous. Enough with "CI is powerful in the end-game, yada yada stuff." No it is not. Glass cannon builds are viable only in SC and not in HC, and the only reason glass cannon builds choose to go for CI and not HP is becausse the crit/dagger nodes are all at the top part of the tree, where there isn't enough HP nodes to begin with and the logical decision would be to go CI. Nerf dagger/crit nodes and buff HP nodes and you'll see a complete change in direction from CI --> HP. Caster builds don't even go for CI anymore because to be a CI caster these days would be to spend 10x the amount of currency that an EB caster would spend and deal 1/2 the amount of DPS with 2/3 the amount of survivability.

Also, the decision to move VP even further away from the shadow is horrendous. It's great that you're looking to buff shadows again, and I'll be glad to provide input if so desired.