Development Manifesto - Desync
" I see, thank you. |
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A Self Found League development manifesto is needed too.
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I never quite understood why they didn't just go with "server does everything" netcode. Sure it makes the game always a little bit laggy which can be tough for an action game, but tbh as desync stands currently, this game isn't actually an action game, and acting as though it is one (relying on positioning, noticing telegraphs, and kiting to stay alive) is a great way to rack up player deaths. Currently the most effective way to make it through the game is to create a build that can trivialize 98% of the content and either avoid the remaining 2% or accept the deaths that come from running into them as a matter of course. This is because your character has to be able to survive several seconds worth of the worst cases of desync (being surrounded by enemies while the enemy you're trying to hit and leech life from is blocked off, for example).
IGN: Ikimashouka, Tsukiyattekudasai, DontCallMeMrFroyo
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I wonder why there are some things missing...
1.) There should be a re-sync of your char if it goes above a certain threshold, immediately , this way death through desync could be vastly reduced. Being desynced a screens length or more for 5 to 10 seconds is just not acceptable. 2.) I assume only inputs are transmitted in general to save bandwith (only clicks and so on). Now, giving both the server and the client and basis of calculations that would enable the client to 100% know how the server would respond (how the mobs will move, how much dmg, and so on...), in combination with with a state system that resembles modern databases, desync would be pretty much impossible! To further explain this: Every change is a object on its own, meaning, your character standing at point A, the mouseclick you made to move it, and later your character standing at point B are all objects. Like, every input (click) has a timestamp and exact value. Excuse me if I fail to explain this in english, but someone who knows databases will probably know what I want to say. The key point here is, that if designed this way, everthing is 100% reversible, and most importantly, deterministic. There is basically no possibility of desync, as long as the client does not assume something different than the server, which should not be possible by using the same basis. (Excluding loot mechanics, where lagg/desync is not relevant.) This mechanic might be vulnerable to cheating to a certain degree, but probably not serious. |
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It really is about time GGG fixes the desync issues. No. It's long overdue.
Desync is by far the worst issue POE has. There are so many threads about it, so many ppl I personally know quit the game because of it. It really keeps POE from being the Nr1 ARPG ever. And the issue has been identified already early in closed beta, YEARS ago. The statement from Chris about desync is ages old, too. Just nothing seems to happen. My Guess: GGG is just not able to fix desync problems. Plain and simple. So they just ignore the problem. They ignore all the threads, all the players who are really annoyed about it. They just keep on adding more content, more microtransactions, more stuff in general. BTW: Congratulations to GOTY from gamespot but just read the comments, how many ppl there say it's basically a great game, but desync ruins it all. Conclusion: I have never ever seen a game with desyncs as worse as POE and i have been playing online video games since 1999. It's a shame, especially because the other aspects of the game are so awesome. Pls, pls, pls. Do everything u can to fix desync. Suggestion: If GGG is growing financially and in terms of employees (which is the case i guess) they should really, really focus on fixing desync. Maybe hire 2 less graphic desingers or so and get 2 more avid netcode specialists. And if nothing else works, just drop the stupid stun mechanic. It's just causing desync problems. Greets DMT:
Load universe into a gun. Aim at brain. Fire. |
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" Much of what makes the game so "awesome" are exactly the reason we have desync. You like this game because you can react to it. The problem is that the game only syncs up ever ten seconds or so. |
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cool i just needed to link this in another thread, thanks for pushing it up just when i needed it Hartbrot <3 karma is cool.
I just read your comments, since you helped me out by raising this thread from the depts. I agree on many of your viewpoints, and i think both haters/fanboys would like to see this problem go away. However i don't think this can be achieved in the current form of the game, it would require a whole rewrite of the game code, and this is just not realistic for GGG to do. Somebody mentioned the other day "maybe PoE is just a test and there next game will be HOLY ***K" Don't forget, this is the first game released by GGG, and i sort of agree with you, but also with that statement i listed above. I think PoE is a test-run, a great one at that. Of course it is sad that it has this issue, but that's how it is atm, and only optimizing the current code can be achieved. This means desync will most likely always be an issue in PoE. However, in PoE 2...., one can dream can we not? :) Peace -Boem- I wish i had something else to tell you. Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
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This is so insulting. It's like Chris thinks we're children who have never played video games before.
First, if rubber banding occurs as a result of a needed correction due to desync, then rubber banding is a part of desync. Second, he included MOBAs and RTS games, the two games types easiest to sync and that have nothing to do with an action RPG. But you know what else is an action RPG? Every MMO ever made. Can you imagine the hell that would would come from players if 25 man raids with 30 monsters on the screen at once in the middle of a giant raid and a hugely difficult encounter just started jumping all over the place? If MMOs can do it than so can PoE, just like D3 does, just like Warframe does. It's not, as Chris would have us believe, a choice between having no sync issues and being an easily hackable game. Third, this was originally written some time ago and nothing has changed. Fourth, the solution already exists in the game. They've given us a /oos command which instantly resyncs you. So all they have to do is send that command automatically every 100ms or so. Except that would cost a ton of money for more bandwidth and server systems (network stuff) to handle the increased traffic/requests. And lastly, the best game to compare this one to is D3. D3 does have rubber banding, but it sends you back to somewhere safe and it sends you back in time. Rather than just moving you into the middle of 7 monsters, it puts you where you were before the monsters and you came into contact. And it never rubber bands the monsters, so you're never suddenly surrounded. So it's not just a matter of rubber banding us, it's about including logic in the rubber banding programs that keeps us from dying. No one would care about desync if it didn't kill us or stop monsters from being hit. For all of Chris' insistence that this is just how these things go, there isn't another game that's readily available, let alone one making the money this game is making off micro-transactions, that behaves like PoE does in this respect. So Chris or whoever else, if you're so put upon by mean old technology and it's difficulties, explain to us why every other action RPG and MMO gaming company of any repute has overcome the same problems. /rant off NOTE: Sorry if I bumped this up, I'm not trying to start an argument. I got to this link from another site after hearing about the manifesto. Last edited by Shelrabbi#1417 on Dec 22, 2013, 1:17:20 AM
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Thank you for posting this OP. It's a great read and would help many people understand the issue.
Don't forget to drink your milk 👌
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" You had me logged through my phone to respond.that means yoy got me angry. You apparentlt never played any online game.Cause if you had the little 60 ms of those games you can hopefully have vs one of 30 Ms is game defining.ill explain.In that kind of games if you are equally in gear and skills, the one with the less lag will always win win since its actions registers faster.games also like those you are reffering,lag horribly yet you wouldn't had so much problem cause conviniently putting cast bars to make predictuons better. Want to compare it with D3?really?in the gane where everything relys on client=cheaters paradice? The game that where notthing never misses its target? The game that goes slowpoke to cover its network faultness and whn somethings goes faster(monk)shows its rubberbanding?you sure want poe to become d3? Bye bye desync!
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