Descent: Champions Information

Can the starter uniques be mirrored?

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Zoen wrote:

Sometimes I wish the starting provision chests could be opened and the items collected prior to the "start" of the race; that way you actually have time to look over your gear and gem selection and plan accordingly instead of the current "3 seconds to grab what you want and sprint ahead" thing it is now.

I really like this idea. I mean, I understand the argument that this is a race and all, but since this race seems more rewarding for non-racers already and the setting seems appropriate, I think it'd be nice for this one race type to do this. It's not like 30 minutes of prep time is going to change the results of the race anyway.

I dearly wish we could practice these events, and I often wish I could play events that are scheduled at a bad time. Would there be some harm in allowing people to play these modes on their own schedule, so long as the items can't leave?

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D623932883 wrote:

Can the starter uniques be mirrored?

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Zoen wrote:

Sometimes I wish the starting provision chests could be opened and the items collected prior to the "start" of the race; that way you actually have time to look over your gear and gem selection and plan accordingly instead of the current "3 seconds to grab what you want and sprint ahead" thing it is now.

I really like this idea. I mean, I understand the argument that this is a race and all, but since this race seems more rewarding for non-racers already and the setting seems appropriate, I think it'd be nice for this one race type to do this. It's not like 30 minutes of prep time is going to change the results of the race anyway.

Heck, it's not even entirely about being "more rewarding", it's more about "having everyone start on equal footing".

All of the normal races start out with equal footing because all you have is a single weapon to pick up (if you so choose) and a zombie to kill for a skill gem (if you want it). Everyone who wants their weapon will have it in the first second of the race.

Then you come to the provisions chest in Descent. Descent isn't "too bad" since it only drops 6 items and 2 skill gems, but you still have to open your inventory and equip the second weapon (for dual wield) as well as your skill gems. Just grabbing the equipment and the gems alone can be a 3 second starting difference from those who know what they're doing, those who don't know what they're doing, and those who could possibly be running a script.

Then you come to the provision chest in Endless Ledge. Let's use the example I mentioned previously in this thread. I did my first Endless Ledge this season; I wanted to try it out for the first time in the intermediate season but they only ran one. I searched the PoE Wiki and Google to see if the provisions chest's class-specific contents were posted anywhere. They weren't. So I jump in at the start of the race, open the chest, scan the items for a Cleave gem and a 2 handed sword (which there wasn't). Being unable to find a 2 hander, I looked for two 1 handed swords and could only find the sword-and-board setup plus an Iron Helmet. By the time I even managed to pick up just one of the items (about 5 seconds in) someone was already level 2.

Descent Champions could possibly end up being the same way, since I'm expecting a good chunk of people to decide to completely forego the provisions chest just to grab their unique items and jump right on in, so those who are actually getting the contents from the provisions chest may find themselves a level behind by the time they get to the door.


Like an earlier mention, races with provisions chests should have a barrier put up to prevent players from leaving the small starting area, but allow the to open the chest to grab their equipment so they're actually prepared to move forward once the "opening guns" go off. Monster AI would still need to be disabled during this time so no monsters get the bright idea of casually wandering over to nuke the player.


As far as Mirroring a starting unique, I don't believe it's possible to Mirror a unique period.

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Souleus wrote:

I dearly wish we could practice these events, and I often wish I could play events that are scheduled at a bad time. Would there be some harm in allowing people to play these modes on their own schedule, so long as the items can't leave?

I'd love to be able to play Descent/Champions and Endless Ledge in "practice mode". No points awarded or anything, just a solo endeavour to familiar yourself with chests, forks, levelling etc so you can be more competitive when it matters. At the very least it would give those who can't play the scheduled events a chance to experience it.

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Zoen wrote:

snip

You are comparing apples and oranges.

Apples: The umpteenth Descent/Endless Ledge races, where it was your first time ever but others had been perfecting the race repeatedly for a month or more.

Oranges: Everyone starting fresh, on equal footing in the very first Descent: Champions.


If your reply to this is that people coming along later in the season should have the 30 min to prep... You can do all the prep in the world by googling chest contents since they'll be known by then.

BTW, the Endless Ledge chest (every class gets the same chest) was findable before the first Endless Ledge ever happened - the easiest way was on google images.

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unsane wrote:

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Zoen wrote:

snip

You are comparing apples and oranges.

Apples: The umpteenth Descent/Endless Ledge races, where it was your first time ever but others had been perfecting the race repeatedly for a month or more.

Oranges: Everyone starting fresh, on equal footing in the very first Descent: Champions.


If your reply to this is that people coming along later in the season should have the 30 min to prep... You can do all the prep in the world by googling chest contents since they'll be known by then.

BTW, the Endless Ledge chest (every class gets the same chest) was findable before the first Endless Ledge ever happened - the easiest way was on google images.

Even if it is "apples and oranges", high chances are some people are going to skip the Provisions Chest just to try and be the first ones inside and level up, or are going to open the Provisions Chest just to look for a specific skill gem or two and be done with it.

As far as the Endless Ledge goes, there wasn't any information stating "every character class started with the same gear selection", and even then you still have to scan over all of the items for the exact ones you want. This is why giving a short preparation time prior to the actual "and they're off" signal on races with Provisions Chests makes the start more even. You could open the chest and have everything you want right in the middle, or you could have everything at opposite ends of the loot pile, which does translate to a few seconds head start advantage to those who "got lucky".

Picking items and equipping them is part of racing.

Making fast decisions on what to use, based on what is available is what makes the diference between a good and a bad racer for this type of event.

If player A can chose fast, pick up fast and kill mobs wile sorting his gear, he definitely deserves to be ahead of player B who takes five minutes to decide what to use.

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Espetado wrote:

Picking items and equipping them is part of racing.

Making fast decisions on what to use, based on what is available is what makes the diference between a good and a bad racer for this type of event.

If player A can chose fast, pick up fast and kill mobs wile sorting his gear, he definitely deserves to be ahead of player B who takes five minutes to decide what to use.

Killing monsters and picking up gear faster makes a better racer, but at the start? No. Even if you start everyone on equal footing, the good racers will still pull ahead, even if you were to give everyone else a 5 level handicap or a 5 minute head start.

I honestly don't see why you'd think the first 5 seconds is a difference between a win and a loss at the beginning.

Am I a good racer? I'd like to feel so, since by your definition I am, being able to pick up items and swap out my gear plus assigning passive points while I'm still moving. Am I an exceptional racer? Hardly. I'm not one of those players who employs the "high risk high reward" strategy that's necessary for making it anywhere quickly. By level point brackets I usually end up falling right in the middle, if not slightly above it.

Theoretically, 2 equal racers starting 5 seconds apart will stay "5 seconds apart" for the whole race.

THAT SAID: I wouldn't mind the ability to at least see the items on the ground, rather than opening a chest, before the game starts. After all, there is precedent as you can see and prepare to target the weapon on the ground (well, for the partial second it gains you, talking to the guy first to trigger the zombie and then clicking the weapon, but still).

Being able to by-sight evaluate where each item dropped wouldn't be out of line with existing race-precedent.


But in the end, assuming everybody either does research or has enough experience to "know" the item drop, better racers will either

A) Do more with less (not spend as much time getting initial gear)

or

B) just go through the routine faster.

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TyrusDark wrote:

Theoretically, 2 equal racers starting 5 seconds apart will stay "5 seconds apart" for the whole race.

This would be considering the fact that (A) both racers play exactly the same (class, play style, skill usage, etc), (B) both racers get the exact same RNG monster spawns that give the same RNG item drops, and (C) both racers get the exact same RNG damage numbers, incoming and outgoing. Putting all of those factors into play, the chance of two racers "staying 5 seconds apart for the entire race" becomes slim to none. The moment one scores a critical hit on a group when the other doesn't and has to use a skill 1 extra time automatically makes the other racer leap ahead. So no, 5 seconds won't do much for experienced racers. Sure, it could be the deciding factor of 1 monster kill to lead, but like I said, the chances of that are pretty slim. But I digress. The point I'm getting to is everyone in a race should start on equal footing regardless of their "experience" or "memorization" because regardless of that, the ones who are currently leading will continue to lead.