PvP Feedback

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Tommie_Sjukskriven wrote:

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Bhaisabh wrote:

Sure, Viper Strike could screw all life-based PvP builds. On the other hand, it could be fine if GGG nerfs its damage scaling for PvP. We have no idea what it's going to be like so why not wait before complaining...

If it's OP, you'll see me running around in Sarn pwning you life bitches ;)

That's the problem, could. I highly doubt they nerfed the scaling of that gem, and also with this patch crit flicker gets even stronger. Yay, am I right

crit flicker does not get stronger with this patch, it gets a slight nerf in life and dps. CI flicker get the buff (more ES) but they were inferior to life flick before. I don't see that changing in 1.2. As for life flickers, there is no way to obtain as much life as before. There are more % phys nodes clustered together, but just enough to counter the 150->130 multy nerf and not more.

viper will be stronger then before, but almost all melee skills used in pvp are strong, but there's always the problem of hitting with them before dying.

TBH I don't see much changing for PVP apart block being a must coz of block pen gem nerf. IMO this is the biggest change for PVP and not the skill tree changes. 2nd biggest change is the ES buff. Perhaps some elemental caster might become more viable - but I am not experienced in that to comment.

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missuse wrote:

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Tommie_Sjukskriven wrote:

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Bhaisabh wrote:

Sure, Viper Strike could screw all life-based PvP builds. On the other hand, it could be fine if GGG nerfs its damage scaling for PvP. We have no idea what it's going to be like so why not wait before complaining...

If it's OP, you'll see me running around in Sarn pwning you life bitches ;)

That's the problem, could. I highly doubt they nerfed the scaling of that gem, and also with this patch crit flicker gets even stronger. Yay, am I right

crit flicker does not get stronger with this patch, it gets a slight nerf in life and dps. CI flicker get the buff (more ES) but they were inferior to life flick before. I don't see that changing in 1.2. As for life flickers, there is no way to obtain as much life as before. There are more % phys nodes clustered together, but just enough to counter the 150->130 multy nerf and not more.

viper will be stronger then before, but almost all melee skills used in pvp are strong, but there's always the problem of hitting with them before dying.

TBH I don't see much changing for PVP apart block being a must coz of block pen gem nerf. IMO this is the biggest change for PVP and not the skill tree changes. 2nd biggest change is the ES buff. Perhaps some elemental caster might become more viable - but I am not experienced in that to comment.

+1

No doubt crit flicker will still be really strong, but people are currently overstating its strength because they're not accounting for the base multi nerf. AFAIK, sites like poebuilder have not corrected for base crit multi, which is why you might get higher theoretical DPS numbers.

I agree with fireskull, either improve the selection of 2h weaponry or give the current selection better defenses.. perhaps 25% block? something to even it out.

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bigfoot312 wrote:

I agree with fireskull, either improve the selection of 2h weaponry or give the current selection better defenses.. perhaps 25% block? something to even it out.

Yep, there really is no incentive to go 2h weapon right now unless you're on the right side of the tree where Acrobatics is. But even then, why not go dagger/sword + shield or something like that? 2h weapons can't outshine the high damage output of daggers coupled with the great defense of a shield like Crest of Perandus. And anyone who considers 2h weapon while on the left side of the tree is just asking to die incredibly quickly due to lack of defenses (armour and evasion can't save you, no Acrobatics, no shield).

The allure of daggers especially needs to be reduced and the allure of other 1h weapons (maces, axes, sceptres, etc.) and 2h weapons (all of them pretty much) needs to be increased.

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bigfoot312 wrote:

I agree with fireskull, either improve the selection of 2h weaponry or give the current selection better defenses.. perhaps 25% block? something to even it out.

Yep, there really is no incentive to go 2h weapon right now unless you're on the right side of the tree where Acrobatics is. But even then, why not go dagger/sword + shield or something like that? 2h weapons can't outshine the high damage output of daggers coupled with the great defense of a shield like Crest of Perandus. And anyone who considers 2h weapon while on the left side of the tree is just asking to die incredibly quickly due to lack of defenses (armour and evasion can't save you, no Acrobatics, no shield).

The allure of daggers especially needs to be reduced and the allure of other 1h weapons (maces, axes, sceptres, etc.) and 2h weapons (all of them pretty much) needs to be increased.

2h melee weapons could use a bracer offhand. 2h users in real life generally blocked attacks either A) with their weapons or B) with their forearms. Even though not very effective it is still something to consider, think rear guard quiver here. A range adjustment wouldn't hurt either. +1 across the board for 2h weapons at the very least. Then I'd reconsider making some changes to acrobatics and phase acrobatics so its not an ez goto choice to limit abusing it along side the bracer concept. Though this is all dependant on other changes to already better specs I.e caster/dagger/bow and 1h shield..

2h doesn't need much if anything everything else should just be toned down and 2h should have superior range. Which currently isn't the case among melee weapons except 2h Axe. Honestly though everyone being able to block is lazy and redundent. How about just tone down the dumb (crit,tempest,molten) and let the 8-12k HP a 2h can get with legacy gear be unique to itself and actually a valid defense. ATM having a big HP pool means dick. How about tone es down a bit more because 8-12k es plus block plus crit plus high mobility and attack/cast speed trumps the entire 2h archetype and shits on any proper meta PvP should have. Bring things down to appropriate levels and 2h won't look so crappy.

I know PvP is all lld focused and so was the initial 2h comment but that's my take on 2h if this game ever embraces real PvP.

Something I posted a few weeks ago, putting it here as well.


Block has been an ongoing issue in this game. The gem was an idea tossed around to implement a way to penetrate it to some degree. While rightfully costing a support gem slot to balance it. It was the best way to achieve a better balance then we previously had. Without reworking block mechanics or recoding the game. Without it you literally have 0 chance to beat someone with block. It was a way for all weapon types and casters to be viable for the first time in Poe's life. Tempest shield adds layers and layers of issues on top of the core one...block. Aegis/anvil are also really potent even still. If you don't use the gem, you're fucked. Even as a sword user with 35 bcr off the tree its not enough alone. This depends greatly on your main skill and who you face. Though honestly block is still really damn good and seems to RNG in the blockers favor more then dodges of equal value ever do. Back in the day you could simply walk away from the PC with tempest shield on...and ppl would die melee,bow,caster, only traps and totems could even touch you. If you don't use the gem this still happens.

I want to retract my statement that block should be flat reduction rather then multiplicative. It would be broken vs anyone not heavily invested in block <50% chance. So gem should stay working as intended but I feel should be 40% at 20/20. Obviously this is one of those things that must be looked at AFTER balancing PvP in other areas first. For the longest time now I've also been trying to push this idea: 2h melee weapons crush block chance. So you get a nice Lil cluster centralized around Mara/duelist where all the 2h nodes are. Within that cluster you have hybrid damage/bcr nodes maxing at 35-40%. It makes sense, drop the "sword" specific nodes that benefit 1 and 2h. Let 1h use the bcr gem and their shield. 2h has no shield and by nature 2h should "crush" shield block...obviously not at 100%. Just saying, this automatically puts 2h in balance. Let's shield users dick around vs one another and doesn't favor one weapon type any longer. Each weapon has its unique traits and sword no longer gets the "gotta use it for PvP BC of bcr" tag. With the inherent con's of being 2h this does not break the game. It won't become path of 2h and its waaaay better then sword being the favored weapon type. Want to allow diversity and balance PvP? Start making changes that make sense.

Hi all,

I think block is fine if its not weaker than people believe, I am playing shadow charc with 75 attack Block and 6k ES CI, and guess what i got 1 shoot alot of times when ppl use block reduction gem or 2 handed sword with Block reduction nodes.

Yes I got full block as defense but what else than block??? no evasion no aromur and guess what i have zero crit nodes from the passive tree at level 88


I go to block to at least stand a chnce in pvp.

Sword Block reduction nodes should be nerfed its OP at the moment its destroying any block build in pvp when its combined with block reduction gem.

Thousand teeth temmu (physical reflect part) should be changed to melee attacker as its OP when I have max block its going to reflect high dmg to melee, ranger, caster, specially if 6L tempest shield is used with it.


conclusion

Block is Fine
Block Reduction Nodes is OP
Thousand Teeth Temmu is OP
Crit Multi is OP (1 shoot 6k ES max block) No single chance to survive (Ranger , Flicker)
2 Handed sword high dmg can be counter by Molten shell , which is countered by lightning strikes or Spectral throw
Explosive Arrow is OP (stacking fire dmg)
Puncture is OP (if crit multi is high)
Harled of Ash is OP (burns you in second) if you are trapper or summoner



Regards, :p

Arguably, IMO, the strongest build in HLD is zero block and RT; Slay's EA build. So block and crit can't be said to be OP in all circumstances.

It takes down the most OP; mirrored dagger, crit, life, dodge, block, evasion builds. Took out the ridiculously broken RF builds about a year ago. Same with low life crit EK, molten, tempest shield builds.

Now I guess one could say then, EA is just too ridiculously OP. However people aren't making EA RT builds en masse, as far as I know.

There was a period of many crit EA builds awhile back. They paled in comparison to Slay's however.

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Dopamineloveaffair wrote:

Arguably, IMO, the strongest build in HLD is zero block and RT; Slay's EA build. So block and crit can't be said to be OP in all circumstances.

It takes down the most OP; mirrored dagger, crit, life, dodge, block, evasion builds. Took out the ridiculously broken RF builds about a year ago. Same with low life crit EK, molten, tempest shield builds.

Now I guess one could say then, EA is just too ridiculously OP. However people aren't making EA RT builds en masse, as far as I know.

There was a period of many crit EA builds awhile back. They paled in comparison to Slay's however.

That's because of EA's ability to ignore 99% of the games mechanics entirely. Building a RT EA build is as connect the dots as RF was. The tree itself isn't brilliant, the gem selection is what matters. EA is anti melee just like everything in this game, it just happens to also trivialize block chance and is elemental damage plus has its own unique set of traits. In tight 1v1 arenas EA is arguably broken, in open spaces not so much. Play smart and don't allow him anything to stack onto..including yourself. Get hit, retreat and recoup then continue the duel. In tight spaces it really doesn't matter you have only 1 choice and that's to play ranged. Since hes RT, he has predictable damage output. You can actually play the match intelligently monitoring your hp/es loss per stack size then making moves appropriately. If he was crit you'd just take unpredictable amounts of burst damage likely killing you in 1 hit, basically smearing shit all over the concept of playing an actual match up but instead just playing Path of Crits. Also make sure you have over stacked fire resist, +max is obviously important too but the big thing is not letting elemental equilibrium lower your fire below 75+.

Think Hammerdin vs Barbarian in Diablo2, minus the south casting blind spot openings. This game takes imbalance to a whole new level. Its evident by now PvP was provided on a whim only. GGG likely had 0 intention to take it seriously, nor have an idea how to. Most things are so heavily skewed its obvious nothing was considered when implemented. Right now we're PvPing in a game balanced around PvM. Some stuff just happens to hold viable while other stuff is just flat out fucked. EA is just that type of skill, its draw backs are strictly PvM oriented. Every problem PvP has it ignores and the fact it can stick/stack and ignite makes detonate times irrelevant.