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Azdrubel wrote:

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zerine wrote:

I just played this game n observe 4 2 weeks. I c very big different between physical and spell class.
In diablo 2 it was very balanced about dmg and spell or elemental dmg. But in POE, so many passive increase physical atk and gem support physical.
Ex: - Multistrike 2 times ur melee skill + MORE ATK SPD ( + not increase atkspd )
- More melee physical + physical in full life : MORE ATK DMG
- Base atkspd and atk dmg of melee weapons quite high compare with D2.
- Aura hatred grand 30% cold dmg from % physical. Get more ele dmg from item + weapon ele dmg super high 40%. When critical with ele dmg can cause any ele status like freeze shock ignite. Added to fire dmg base on physical dmg.
- 1 Char can get about 5-6 aura with alpha howl + prism guardian.
- Unique items supported too much for physical build.
- Use skill with low cost mana and have many effects.
- Atk can cause stun effect. I dunno where diablo 2 fastest hit recovery effect here but spell class cant cause sth like that here only physical.
- Bosses and monster dun have any resist physical traits.
- Passive skill r lower distance 2 achieve and high effect. Like atk spd 15% O.O compare highest castspd 6%. Physical atk not only + % physical and add so much effect like + HP + blah blah. + 8% max HP or higher and + life regen by %. It completely overwhelming hit and HP regen full no need flash anymore --> appear righteous fire build for marauder with extremely high dps + high regen just run around and turn around.
- Active skill effect had very large range and many favor like split arrow can shoot 6 arrow even spark cant only shoot 3. I saw a ranger with split arrow max 20 clean map completely fastest 2 totem spark even witch higher lvl and better gears. Life Leech + blood magic ( from item or gem ) + vaal pact made ur character be immortal with end game bosses.
I've never tried but according these factors i thought 200k dps was possible to achieve.
To Ele dmg build:
- Can't get buff from aura or get more ele dmg from item.
- Items + about 20-40% resist and easy 2 max res 75 without purity of ele.
- Very low base dmg. To endgame will be weaker just use 4 farming is very good.
- Very hard to Bosses cause every of them almost resist ele/chaos.
- Low dmg passive : 12% spell or 6%fire/light/cold <<< 6% - 20% physical atk when it bonus with ur own stat + aura bonus.Dun have any active or support gem for MORE SPELL ATK except Pain Attunement ( in low life - lower 35% life ).
- Very high cost mana. Even u had mana leech but bosses still can use skill normally and in pvp i saw no absorb any mana from hit.
- Can only cause ele status in critical like shock, freeze, ignite. Cant cause sth like stun or status for Fastest hit recovery in D2. Skill dont have physical status like stun effect.
About unique item: Very highest support to melee build. U can get very high ARMOR or EVASION but not much ES to comapre with them. Can u get 20k ES but 20k armor is quite easy to achieve with flash.
Most bitchy item r Aegis aurora regen es by 4% armor ( easiest 2 achieve high armor ) n this had no limit time cooldown 4 this. Make who equip this shield can be immortal from hit.
For advise, a high lvl player gonna suggest newbie play Ranger/ marauder/duelist or physical build easy 2 survive and end boss quickly.
Sry guys i'm noob and not much knowledge. This is all i can know this game now. Read and correct me.

Hi, while I do agree that spellls are generally weaker than attacks I do have to correct some of your points.

Multistrike: lowers the dmg per hit significantly (basically a 0.6 multiplier, which is not too significant in PvE but very significant in PvP if the opponent has high armor/uses granites)

Physical on full life: can only be utilized by CI chars. Lifebuilds will have much better options...

Hatred: can also buff Etheral Knives and Bear Traps (spells). You are right though that ele spells have nothing in comparison.

Uniques for physical builds are too good: I assume you mean attack-based chars and are talking about BoR and Soul Taker. Imo there are too many mandatory uniques for casters to make them competitive (you need Shavronnes for low-life and Aegis to easily recharge your ES). Physical attackers will most likely use high-end rare gear (mirrored daggers/swords). I think casters should have more options to deal significant dmg aside from low-life, thus being more approachable for newer players (= ppl who have no shav).

Attack causes stun while spells do not: that is wrong. Spells will also stun. You can observe that for yourself by using Freezing Pulse with LMP/GMP and shoot into a big group of monsters. They will get stunned.

Mobs have no physical resist: wrong, they have armor but it is a pretty low amoount. Players in PvP can have an insane amount of armor though and boost their armor temporarily with a Granite. There is also a physical resist aura called "Determination" and two hardcounter mechanics called block (which can also work against spells but requires more investment) and Evasion which nullifies attackdamage while spells cannot be evaded.

Attacknodes are better: true. Still, some examples you give are wrong. 15% attackspeed has less effect, as attackspeed has a sort of diminishing returns. 15% ias are less effective for a multistrike user who already has 200% ias than for someoone who has 0% ias and does not use Multistrike. Additionally, more items can roll castspeed compared to attackspeed.
I do not understand you point about Righteous Fire, as that is a spell, but maybe I am misunderstanding...

Attackskills are better: Well not exactly. While a well-geared attackbased build can pump out more dmg, all attack-skills (except for Elehit, but that skill sucks now, Viper Strike, Explosive Arrow and in parts Poison Arrow) are scaling with the gear. A lvl 20 Split Arrow gem with a shitty bow will do shitty dmg no matter what support-gems it is linked to, while a lvl 20 Freezing pulse will always do a minimum amount of dmg, because spells scale with the gem-lvl. That leads back to your point of the more effective support-gems. Whilke it is true that the effect of "More melee physical dmg" is significant with good gear and there is no similar(!) gem for spells, there are supports like "Empower" for example, which have a much bigger effect on spells than on most attack-skills.

Your concerns of ele-dmg builds are in part completely wrong too:

No ele dmg from gear: first, this is wrong when talking about elemental attackdamage (like lightning arrow for example). The dmg of ele-attracks is buffed by flat eledmg from gear (x-y light/fire/cold dmg) and x% increased elemental dmg with weapons. If you are talking about spells, it is still wrong, as there are mods on gear like "x% increased spelldmg" or "y% light/fire/cold dmg". Also, there are castspeed-rolls. Plus, you can scale spells with crit in the same way as attacks.

Resistances are too easy to obtain: yes and no. While it is true that you can easily cap your resistances, there are penetration gems for ele-dmg only. Nothing similar exists for physical dmg. The only way to penetrate armor is: more damage.

Hard against bosses: yes and no. Remember, in Diablo 2 (which you put up as the superior way of how eledmg was handled) monsters could be IMMUNE against an element. And while it is true that elemental dmg against bosses is pretty low compared to physical, you can still use the penetratipon gem which has a higher effect the higher the opponents resistances are.

Manacost: agasin, yes and no. The thing is that the favourable caster-classes (witch, templar, shadow, scion) have a much easier access to Intelligence- and mana-nodes which makes them have a much bigger manapool and allows them to sustain more expensive skills. Also, several attack-skills have tremendous manacost too, like Elemental Hit for example.

No stun: even if you repeat this, it is still wrong. Every dmg-dealing ability can stun (unlike in Diablo 2 btw - there were skills that could NOT stun, like Bonespear for example).

Armor vs ES: ES is like life, armor is like physical resistance and has no effect on eledmg for example.

Aegis: while I agree that the ES-regen effect of Aegis is pretty insane, high block can be countered with swords or unblockable dmg-effects like Poison/Explosive arrow, Ground effects, Righteous Fire...

Yes, you can combine all this with 10000 Exalted worth of gear, faceroll everyone until they ragequit, then confuse your gear with an actual accomplishment and masturbate on your wealth/skills... BUT, owning stuff is the point of this game (pun not intended). The more you own the better you are. You might not like such a pure materialistic approach, but this is the truth nonetheless.

Anyways, btt:
I agree with your overal statement that spells are, in general, too weak. They do not fullfil their roll as an automatic newbie-choice. Compare THIS to Diablo 2: If you started fresh you made a Sorc, period. Because she could beat the game without anything. Even with the worst drop-luck. Here, you can get through Cruel but you will most definitely run into serious issues on Merciless without average twink gear, very careful planning or a lot of experience with the game. Spells cannot deal the required damage on their own to enable a fluent gameplay experience. In the arena, where you compete with the top-end of gear (both in LLD and Open), it is even worse. At least for PvP, spells imo need a rework. They need to deal more basedmg and should not have to rely on low-life-crit to be useable.


regards