Resistance Penalties (and a league to test them!)

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Synner wrote:

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Simony wrote:

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Synner wrote:

Sorry, I am just amazed at how "your" ( no one specific ) comments are feedback but mine aren't.

"Everyone is entitled to their opinion ...as long as they agree with me."

I'll test, you'll test, GGG will balance it out, we'll all be happy.

lol i'm not saying that only our post are truth, not at all. you are basically telling us to "wait and see" when we are just again.... pointing out the problems we see with the proposed system... it's just simply our opinions "verbalized" from our perspective.
so sorry if this sounds melodramatic but is this post really nessisary?

Necessary ...no probably not but the same can be said about your response. Ive said my peace and will leave it be. Have fun in game.

You too glhf!

Will i will not comment on the changes themselves now because i didn't test them yet and maybe i need to adjust my gear but i've to give this comment somehow.

You took this idea of D2 and it was a great idea but in D2 you had unique items that came with alot of resistance + gems in sockets.

Now if this things is to work out and not cause the inferno brick wall that are there in D3 you should give people real options:

1- resistance rings should have a resistance value based on level that gives more and more resistance the higher the ring level is because as of currently the value is very small unless you are OMG super lucky.

2- bandit quest value needs to be a little higher to offset these huge resistance gaps between difficulties.

3- Skill tree should have enough nodes to cover these resistance gapes and should be 20 points in the general direction of each staring charter else unbalance would happen.

Maybe all of the above or mix but at least give us the options to off set these changes.

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Chris wrote:

By the way,

a) A low level common unique helmet is probably being added that has 30-40 to all elemental resists. The idea is that a player who is having trouble with resists can sacrifice their helmet slot to use an item like this. Over time there will be more variety in other uniques that do similar things.

b) The new tree has more resistances in it.

c) As mentioned before, we're attacking things like cold snap monsters and monster elemental weakness curses.

Chris, Ive stated this before, but do NOT FALL into the All Resist gear trap Diablo 3 fell into. If gear didn't have all resists on it, it was generally viewed as bad. It will overprice that gear by a lot and create a terrible overinflated economy.

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rflynn74 wrote:

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Chris wrote:

By the way,

a) A low level common unique helmet is probably being added that has 30-40 to all elemental resists. The idea is that a player who is having trouble with resists can sacrifice their helmet slot to use an item like this. Over time there will be more variety in other uniques that do similar things.

b) The new tree has more resistances in it.

c) As mentioned before, we're attacking things like cold snap monsters and monster elemental weakness curses.

Chris, Ive stated this before, but do NOT FALL into the All Resist gear trap Diablo 3 fell into. If gear didn't have all resists on it, it was generally viewed as bad. It will overprice that gear by a lot and create a terrible overinflated economy.

All Resistance is insane in D3 because of the larger number of elements, the fact that it applies to physical damage, and that Elites/Champion monsters can have wildly different damage types in the same dungeon (all of which are extremely good at killing you). On top of this, a high all resist is *required* in D3. You can't get one or two AR items and be OK; you need to get a substantial amount if you want it to be effective. This makes the gear worth more because finding relevant stats AND a high all resist value (and by definition a higher item level) is a much rarer drop.

This doesn't really apply to PoE. There are few PoE areas where all of the elemental damage types are used by enemy monsters to such a threatening degree (excluding maps). It's insanely easy to get maxed resistances. I'd say it's reasonable for players to have gear specifically for each element. Each boss fight requires one main element and so do most dungeons. Combine this with very high rolls (even for a 150 ceiling) of resists on most gear, getting to 150 for all elements should not be that much harder. Most people doing A2 Merc/Maps are probably sitting on 100ish all resist right now without the bandit quest. My gear has 25-40% single element resists on several pieces without me really planning on it or thinking about it. I'd imagine most people have similar if not higher values.

The change GGG wants to make is that elemental resistance should be a concern. You can choose to ignore it and go for damage, max to 150 and be safe(r), or a compromise of the two. That seems reasonable to me and mirrors how I felt about resists in D2.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, I only made it 7 pages in but I didn't see it.

I did the last 1 week race and gear wise my list went life>resist>armor as a tank duelist. Act 1 normal I had no problem with resists, Merveil is easy to handle with over 30% ice resist, if you can hit 75% it's a cake walk.

Vaal, was a bitch. I couldn't figure out how to avoid the melee attack so I needed to find fire and lightning resist which is hard at those low lvls where a 20% roll on a piece of armor is like seeing 99 life on a high end piece of gear.

Cruel I was able to get 70/70 fire/lighting but I had to sacrifice all cold resist to do so.

Ruthless I had to give up a bunch of armor and 300 life to get 75F-70C-75L resists. At lvl 65 in normal hardcore I'm still only sitting at 73-75-75 as until you start MFing maps high lvl rare gear isn't dropping easily.

I'm all for this change as long as we have ways to make up for it, this race. Like more nodes with noteworthy (is that what they are called?) like thick skin or more weight to the few there already are. I usually get the 3 8% ones north of duelist but that's honestly nothing and I'm not up there until 40-50 range. I'm not sure there are any south, none in ranger and the maura ones are far.

The nerf to regen hurt alot, I'm having to get more life nodes to make up for it and now I have to get resist nodes. Duelist doesn't do much dmg as it is and in order to be melee I find all of these updates are forcing me to take more tank related nodes just to stay alive.

Lastly, with the race economy everything is trading for alchs, adding more item names and requiring rare maps have made alchs heavily desired, heavily used and hardly aquired. I didn't make it to maps the last race so I saved my alchs for wpn upgrades and never used them, this is going to make alchs worth as much as an exalted.

I'm still looking forward to the race but I don't think I'll get to 75 like I've been planning. I'll have to move slower across difficulties.

Again, no protest of the change but there will need to be a heavy rebalancing if you decide to go this route. I think we will be seeing many 60+ deaths, especially 70+ as they are chasing very hard maps and ele weakness/added lighting dmg maps will be insane.

Oh, one last note this really limits the gear choices for tanks. Every slot is going to have to have at least 1 resist and life to be usable.

edit: more thinking, the resist bandit will have to be buffed. 180 life works out to 540 for most tanks, which is basically two close to max life rolls on items. While there's no multiplier for resists so the resist bandit works out to 2 blue rings.

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Moosifer wrote:

Oh, one last note this really limits the gear choices for tanks. Every slot is going to have to have at least 1 resist and life to be usable.

edit: more thinking, the resist bandit will have to be buffed. 180 life works out to 540 for most tanks, which is basically two close to max life rolls on items. While there's no multiplier for resists so the resist bandit works out to 2 blue rings.

Comparing the implicit mod of one item to an affix is unfair. If you look at life and all resist in terms of affixes, life mods go up to 99, a bit over 2 oak rewards, and +all resist mods go up to 16%, 2 kraityn rewards (and mana goes up to 64, only 1.5 alira rewards). Making these three rewards all approximately equal in terms of their effect relative to item affixes.


The problem I see is comparing the 8% all resist to 1 skill point, where the normal, non-notable passives are only 8% to a single resist. This isn't a problem now because of how easy max resist is to get without passives.

A person not taking Kraityn's reward can reasonably expect to get max resists by using resist-focused rings, and some arbitrary resists on other gear, a person taking Kraityn's rewards can get it with just the rings, or just arbitrary resists. When someone has to consider spending a passive point on resistances, they have to account for how valuable that passive point is, where else that point can be used. For all normal skill points (non bandit rewards), the choice is simpler, because the only way to spend that point is somewhere else on the tree. But for the bandit reward passive points, you have to take into consideration if one of the bandit rewards provides more bonus to your character than how you'd spend that point. With the change to the skill tree to include more accessible resists, and the resist penalty, players will probably start to ask themselves "am I going to put points into resist nodes?".

If that answer is yes (which I'm sure for many people it will be), then that makes the skill point reward useless given the current power of non-notable resist nodes. Would someone take 8% in a single resist via the passive tree (where they also have to get to the resist node in question), or 8% to all resists for no effort. Anyone taking the skill point reward AND putting passives into resists will be gimping themselves, by about 1/3 of their potential for the bandit reward.

My proposed suggestion for this expected imbalance would be to increase the power of the normal, single resist nodes up to 16-20%. This makes it so that a person choosing between a skill point to spend on resists anyways or 8% all resist gets the more interesting choice of "do I want a lot of a single resist, or do I want some of all resists" instead of "do I want some of a single resist or do I want some of all resists?". This will help keep the skill point reward on par with Kraityn, so that its not a huge sacrifice to take a skill point and then spend it on resists.

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Another initial thought I had is on the scaling, going from 25% to 75% is a huge jump, even though I know you want the end-game balanced around 75%. The problem with this is that it will affect the mid-late game (ruthless) more than it affects actual end-game (maps), as people starting out in and levelling up through merciless won't yet have gotten the gear to account for that extra 50% loss, but by the time they finish act 3 and start on maps, they probably will have the gear they need to keep it from being a problem. Instead of giving all of ruthless the massive 75% penalty, I suggest giving ruthless the 50% penalty, and maps (the actual end-game) a 75% penalty.

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And GGG, I know you're tweaking elemental damage on mobs, I just want to point out those goatmen from early act 1 normal who do a huge amount of fire damage before the player even has a chance at getting early resists. If you would take a good look at those and make their numbers more in line with the physical damage mobs around them, I'd much appreciate it.