I wish I had never supported you

"

_rt_#4636 wrote:

"

Wo0olfgaNg_#7323 wrote:

Why do you say that?

- Game lacks basic QoL features
- Artificially created time sinks and difficulty
- Almost the whole game is based on lottery/gambling mechanics (so you understand why so many people "love" to grind in this game)
- Basic QoL is gated behind MTX (currency tab)
- Being able to sell items to players is not built into the game and requires MTX (or spamming trade channel, or 3rd party software which I'm not sure whether or not still works)
- Shady tactics to sell map tabs in PoE 2 (waited 2.5 months to release it, so newer players probably had already spent their 300 coins)
- Artificially created necessity for more MTX as the game develops (old special tabs in PoE 1)
- Every new league comes with a set of FOMO-packs (don't miss out, available only this league)

PoE's monetization model is one of the most disrespectful I've ever seen in gaming.

Subscription? Here's the game, pay to play

P2W? You put money, you get stronger. Whoever has a deeper wallet wins

Gacha? Here are the odds, drops are guaranteed based on the odds too

PoE? Our game deliberately lacks the bare minimum, but don't worry, we sell it on our MTX shop (but don't get your hopes up, even the MTX version isn't super good)

Currency tab? Should've been built into PoE 2 and be able to carry literally anything you can buy/sell on Currency Exchange
Make a tab public with a set price? Should've been built into PoE 2
Map tab? Should've been built into PoE 2 with the option to upgrade for more slots, added functionality like advanced affinity, etc
Tab affinity? Should've been built into PoE 2, with premium tabs having advanced affinity functionality (the current affinity sucks and only works for a handful of item types like currency and essences)
Supporter packs? Discounted price during the league, more expensive once the league ends

PS: At this point, it's becoming clearer that PoE 2 is just a substitute for PoE 1: the previous game became too bloated, so they just created a "new game" to repeat the same cycle they did with PoE 1 the past 6-8 years.

PS 2: Inb4 - the game is F2P, if you don't like it, don't play and don't give GGG money.
Yes, that's exactly what I did regarding PoE 1 and what I'm doing now regarding PoE 2. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. And shame on me for giving GGG the benefit of the doubt with PoE 2's EA.

"

Lord_Arami#5382 wrote:

For what I am learning in the last months about tabs, I wouldn't call POE 2 "Pay to Win" nor "Pay for Convenience".

I would call POE2 "Pay because Inconvenience".

"

Pathological#1188 wrote:

They are the least invasive, least predatory monetizer around, and it's not close.

"

adam_law#9913 wrote:

1. There's an Economy

2. There are 3rd party services and sites for this Economy. People are actually paying real-world money to host these sites and services.

Is it out of altruism, OR PROFIT? You tell us.

3. There's even an in-game currency exchange for this Economy

4. If anyone wants to effectively participate in this Economy, it will require stash tabs to organize everything that is needed, and extra stash tabs are bought with real money. Don't get started with the in-game MTXcoin.

If anyone says that the starting tabs are enough to profit in the Economy, THEY ARE LYING.

5. Anything in the game can be bought via the Economy, for the right price. These currencies are not "pure" i.e., they are not entirely generated by the player base's play but is also supplemented by the game itself i.e., "printing currencies" for the currency exchange. Does anyone seriously think that the CE only buys and sells currencies that come from gameplay? What is this? Blockchain? Please.

The CE is a convenience but it's also one of the things people are saying here about mechanics that drive the Economy and paying / playing to "win".

6. There are "carry" services being offered to less-skilled players for the price of not only divines and exalts, but real money. Isn't that "paying to win"?

7. Therefore, with all these points stated, PoE 1 and 2 are definitely pay to win. Success in the game system is not self-contained to playing it, being rewarded with experience and loot to drive getting even better loot and skills. Nay. Endgame growth is mainly driven by the acquisition of power through trade and trade can only happen effectively with the purchase of QoL items like stash tabs and gear sold by other players. Getting any of those takes time and real-world money.

I bet most of those complaining about PoE2 being p2w are people who have to pay for their own electricity, have responsibilities like family and kids, and only have a few hours each day, or even weeks, to play, making playtime very precious.

On the flipside of the coin, I see those who are on the opposite camp as having all the time in the world, have lots of money to pay to play and so, were able to trade through the obvious walls and ceilings the game has around those who don't trade.

I should know some of this. I live with my best friend who stays home all day and plays PoE1 and 2. His wife brings in the bread.

He has 5 characters in PoE1 at level 90-100. 2 characters in PoE2 at level 90. All in standard. All with decent gear due to trading. He has a shit ton of tabs for all these characters and trading.

3 of these characters were leveled to 95 and 100 just in the last season. Go figure how he did that. He more or less one shots the screen on both games.


I have a level 80 PoE 2 SSF mercenary with whatever scuff gear I can put together from drops and the currencies I collect. I've probably mastered most of the boss and mob mechanics to beat them with mechanics, not character power.

My friend hasn't and he admits it. Much of his "wins" come from absurd amounts of energy shield, uniques and high-tiered items that melt enemy life.

So when I see the usual comments about "Don't die" or "The game is telling you you're playing badly." I label people like these as idiots.

"

So when I see the usual comments about "Don't die" or "The game is telling you you're playing badly." I label people like these as idiots.

"

gX_kiD#0166 wrote:

In the same boat as OP.

I tried POE1 a few times, was aware of GGG's stellar reputation among gamers, and then Jonathan Rogers even said the game runs "solid & smooth at 40fps on a Steamdeck". So I bought the early access pack.

Then I find out the game runs like sh*t on the Deck, GGG is fully owned by China, and to add insult to injury, they can't even be bothered to communicate with their own customers. At all.

This is the most pathetic early access I've ever had the displeasure to be part of, and I'd happily take a refund and never look back at this point.

"

_rt_#4636 wrote:

You can also go check Last Epoch.
- You can have "unlimited" stash tabs
- All tabs are premium
- Fully functional tab affinity (to the level of having item mod affinities)
- Built-in loot filter creator
- Mostly-deterministic crafting (no gambling)
- Item drops are identified (devs don't force you into wasting your time picking up trash and identifying it)
- More transparent development roadmap
- Game has full offline play (so even if EHG closes the game, you'd still be able to at least back up a copy and play the last patch forever)
- Game costs a little over an EA key
- Extra monetization is only for cosmetics so far

"

Gang5ter15#1071 wrote:

"

gX_kiD#0166 wrote:

In the same boat as OP.

I tried POE1 a few times, was aware of GGG's stellar reputation among gamers, and then Jonathan Rogers even said the game runs "solid & smooth at 40fps on a Steamdeck". So I bought the early access pack.

Then I find out the game runs like sh*t on the Deck, GGG is fully owned by China, and to add insult to injury, they can't even be bothered to communicate with their own customers. At all.

This is the most pathetic early access I've ever had the displeasure to be part of, and I'd happily take a refund and never look back at this point.

Are you talking about poe 1 or 2 now. Cause 1 is free 2 play. and 2 is actually early access and if he said POE1 is running smooth then that might be true.

Poe 2 is mostly between 33 and 53 FPS on Steamdeck. Its not that bad.
Most time its an average of 40. So yes hes correct.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjtKxtOjpj0

"

Gang5ter15#1071 wrote:

First last epoch is actually a fully released game. Second its Buy 2 play which POE 2 wont be. Its a bad comparison.

"

Pathological#1188 wrote:

They are the least invasive, least predatory monetizer around, and it's not close.

"

Pathological#1188 wrote:

least invasive

"

Pathological#1188 wrote:

least predatory

"

Pathological#1188 wrote:

and it's not close.

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

"

Oinkaments#6390 wrote:

You guys are acting like this is Gacha. POE 2 is not pay to win at all. I only spent money to buy the game and Will never need to pay a dime to keep playing it. I can crush any end game content blindfolded. You guys must be trolling and trolling very hard that is. Seriously, the hot takes I'm seeing are out of this world.

We aren't talking about your personal perspective and experience.

I too, Have no issue spending a small amount of money and just playing the game. This isn't the case for other people. The game was designed in such a way that people with addictive tendencies can get very hooked on it.

People aren't claiming it's Pay 2 Win. Even though it is, in some minor ways.

That's not the issue that's being discussed.

What is being discussed is that People are claiming it's using the same tactics that many other games to hook players, and make money off them.

Before you go getting upset at a message. Pause and think about what was written.

"

Icesinnox#6517 wrote:

The RNG is the only reason people play these games for more than a few weeks. IN terms of combat it's just point and click. There's nothing deep going on here. And slowing down the gameplay and making it so that you have to CC a few enemies and dodge around a bit more etc. Isn't going to make this a deep video game in terms of combat mechanics.