Experience penalty when dying

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Zumac666#6492 wrote:

I have stopped playing this game until the remove the experience death penalty.

+1

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Slart1bartfast#0332 wrote:

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Fenoch#0462 wrote:

Not another one. This isn't Blizzard. No amount of QQ will make them change such a fundamental mechanic as this.

It works as intended. Removing it would defeat the purpose of playing skillful and being mindful. It would also negatively impact the economy in-game as people would just throw themselves at tough stuff instead of selling, re-invest and beat the tougher content when they're ready. Given econ impact would probably be minor but still.

There are no other punishments in the game aside from:

Xp-Loss and Map-Loss upon death.

It works fine. Sometimes bugs do kill you or some weird clunky stutter stuff and I get that frustration but then play slower and more mindful. It works. Every single time.

You logic is flawed.

If exp loss is so instrumental to making death meaningful and making players more skillful and mindful, then why does Omen of Amelioration exist, allowing you to largely buy yourself out it for a measly 70 exalts or so? At high level where exp loss starts to hurt you have enough currency to just permanently have one active in your inventory.

Second point about econ. Omg, yes! Let us throw ourselfs at tough stuff to find good loot instead of playing Wolf of Wallstreet on a website forcing you away from actually playing the game. How much more anti-player can a mechanic be than it making you leave the game?

Additionally, if I decide I am happy with the level I am at and don't care for leveling anymore, your whole argumentation goes right out of the window. I can throw myself at tought stuff as much as I want without any regards for punishment. How is that for ruining the economy?

Besides, there is plenty of punishment, loss of a map entails losing a waystone, losing the node, losing all the time you needed to set up the towers, losing unlooted items, losing time played, etc.
In case you "throw yourself at though stuff" and die you lose fragments, audience, etc. which have cost you dozens of hours to farm without anything to show for it.

It's an antiquated mechanic that is anti-player and uses a design approach of punishing the player for doing bad instead of rewarding him for doing good. Let it go man. It isn't 1999 anymore (which btw. in D2 you could recoup your exp loss, so even then it was less punishing)

PS: Also before you take an elitist dump on blizzard look how they solved the problem in D3. You got rewarded with a small exp boon for not dying and lost the boon on death - actively rewarding you for maintaining a streak of not dying. That's objectively a hundred times better design.

Nothing you said makes sense.

Omen of Amelioration exist because at a certain point xp loss isnt enough on its own. So yea it's kind of a given that you always have one active and thats part of the "price" of dying.

Your second point has nothing to do with this post.

IF youre happy at the level youre at, then why are you complaining?

I dont agree with your fourth point but I feel that's subjective and you're open to have your opinion. GGG fortunately disagrees with you as well though. People stopped playing diablo because blizzard cared more about money from the masses and they listened to so many complaints and changed the game for them rather than stand by those who liked the game they created and liked the challenges and enjoyed the game as it was, which is why so many people migrated to this game. theres a sense of accomplishment in hitting max level and that is a reward in my opinion. I dont think you need to hit max level to enjoy the game either, so i think its fine to make it difficult for most people.

Also in D2 recovering your corpse is essentially the same as an Omen. you never recovered all the xp you lost on death.

what i will say is that some deaths do feel unfair and thats when this xp loss can feel frustrating; but in the end i dont think removing the penalty is the right approach over fixing the reason for those unfair deaths.

PS if you like diablo more, then play diablo? there are people that enjoy this game more than diablo and there are people that enjoy diablo more than this game. i think youre being more of an elitist wanting things to be a certain way not understanding that not everyone feels the way you do.

so yea not "objectively better" imo

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Fenoch#0462 wrote:

Not another one. This isn't Blizzard. No amount of QQ will make them change such a fundamental mechanic as this.

It works as intended. Removing it would defeat the purpose of playing skillful and being mindful. It would also negatively impact the economy in-game as people would just throw themselves at tough stuff instead of selling, re-invest and beat the tougher content when they're ready. Given econ impact would probably be minor but still.

There are no other punishments in the game aside from:

Xp-Loss and Map-Loss upon death.

It works fine. Sometimes bugs do kill you or some weird clunky stutter stuff and I get that frustration but then play slower and more mindful. It works. Every single time.

I agree people should play skillfully and mindfully so as to not die. The problem is you refuse to understand why people are saying this in the first place and resort to "stop crying". There is so much map clutter and terrible one shot effects it is infuriating when you are unable to see what actually killed you. There is no skill involved when a one shot explosion is near invisible. I would agree with you if this stuff wasn't a thing.

People would just throw themselves at tough stuff? There are no other punishments? Are you kidding? How bout the time/money it takes to get fragments, the time to run a trial/map, just to still die to a one shot mechanic. People would still invest in better gear to defeat bosses if they are unable to kill them. The xp loss is just an inconvenience because by the time you actually reach the level to lose xp you should probably be fine clearing maps, and if you die mapping, losing the map is more than sufficient to want to get better gear. So yeah I'm fine with removing this inconvenience that just makes me waste more time and piss me off.

I don't think the XP penalty should be removed.

I think the exp penalty should remain but you should only lose the exp gained on the map you died on. It can take me 10 maps to get 10% at this point and dying after 12 maps to a random corpse blowing up and wasting like 2 hours of progress is just wild. It basically forces you, if you want to level up beyond like 92, to find a good carry and just focus on nentirely on not dying for hours...and also having to find a new party every 15-30 mins.

It just seems there is a really big barrier on leveling up past 92-ish that it actually feels like the game doesn't want me to try leveling up anymore.

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Deathcheater_#4394 wrote:

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Fenoch#0462 wrote:

Not another one. This isn't Blizzard. No amount of QQ will make them change such a fundamental mechanic as this.

It works as intended. Removing it would defeat the purpose of playing skillful and being mindful. It would also negatively impact the economy in-game as people would just throw themselves at tough stuff instead of selling, re-invest and beat the tougher content when they're ready. Given econ impact would probably be minor but still.

There are no other punishments in the game aside from:

Xp-Loss and Map-Loss upon death.

It works fine. Sometimes bugs do kill you or some weird clunky stutter stuff and I get that frustration but then play slower and more mindful. It works. Every single time.

I agree people should play skillfully and mindfully so as to not die. The problem is you refuse to understand why people are saying this in the first place and resort to "stop crying". There is so much map clutter and terrible one shot effects it is infuriating when you are unable to see what actually killed you. There is no skill involved when a one shot explosion is near invisible. I would agree with you if this stuff wasn't a thing.

People would just throw themselves at tough stuff? There are no other punishments? Are you kidding? How bout the time/money it takes to get fragments, the time to run a trial/map, just to still die to a one shot mechanic. People would still invest in better gear to defeat bosses if they are unable to kill them. The xp loss is just an inconvenience because by the time you actually reach the level to lose xp you should probably be fine clearing maps, and if you die mapping, losing the map is more than sufficient to want to get better gear. So yeah I'm fine with removing this inconvenience that just makes me waste more time and piss me off.

i personally dont refuse to understand; i choose to disagree. I understand your sentiment but I dont align with it. Hitting max level isnt supposed to be a walk in the park. and i think thats ok. it is possible to clear all current content without hitting max level so it isnt a barrier that doesnt allow you to play the game. Removing the xp penalty doesnt fix the issue with unfair deaths.

PS even with with the possibility of unfair deaths, you shouldnt be dying enough to be bothered by it.(ok maybe a little) but if you are dying to the point where you cant progress with the intention of progressing, theres probably an issues with your gear, build, skill, etc. which should be a priority over your level.

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Pinh3ad#2935 wrote:

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Deathcheater_#4394 wrote:

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Fenoch#0462 wrote:

Not another one. This isn't Blizzard. No amount of QQ will make them change such a fundamental mechanic as this.

It works as intended. Removing it would defeat the purpose of playing skillful and being mindful. It would also negatively impact the economy in-game as people would just throw themselves at tough stuff instead of selling, re-invest and beat the tougher content when they're ready. Given econ impact would probably be minor but still.

There are no other punishments in the game aside from:

Xp-Loss and Map-Loss upon death.

It works fine. Sometimes bugs do kill you or some weird clunky stutter stuff and I get that frustration but then play slower and more mindful. It works. Every single time.

I agree people should play skillfully and mindfully so as to not die. The problem is you refuse to understand why people are saying this in the first place and resort to "stop crying". There is so much map clutter and terrible one shot effects it is infuriating when you are unable to see what actually killed you. There is no skill involved when a one shot explosion is near invisible. I would agree with you if this stuff wasn't a thing.

People would just throw themselves at tough stuff? There are no other punishments? Are you kidding? How bout the time/money it takes to get fragments, the time to run a trial/map, just to still die to a one shot mechanic. People would still invest in better gear to defeat bosses if they are unable to kill them. The xp loss is just an inconvenience because by the time you actually reach the level to lose xp you should probably be fine clearing maps, and if you die mapping, losing the map is more than sufficient to want to get better gear. So yeah I'm fine with removing this inconvenience that just makes me waste more time and piss me off.

i personally dont refuse to understand; i choose to disagree. I understand your sentiment but I dont align with it. Hitting max level isnt supposed to be a walk in the park. and i think thats ok. it is possible to clear all current content without hitting max level so it isnt a barrier that doesnt allow you to play the game. Removing the xp penalty doesnt fix the issue with unfair deaths.

PS even with with the possibility of unfair deaths, you shouldnt be dying enough to be bothered by it.(ok maybe a little) but if you are dying to the point where you cant progress with the intention of progressing, theres probably an issues with your gear, build, skill, etc. which should be a priority over your level.

The beautiful thing about the world, is that differing opinions can exist, and be entirely valid.

Some people just want to hit level 100. And they want to do so without it being overly frustrating. There doesn't need to be any other reason for that. You don't need to agree with it to support it.

Not everyone plays video games to be tested. Some people just want to be play and grind, and hit 100, and then maybe do it all over again. People all play for different reasons.

The entire issue is that people don't view any other playstyle, other than their own, as worthwhile, or having value. But it does. And telling people that they just want to die over and over, is your way of refusing to look at it from another persons perspective.


Disconnect yourself from PoE, and look at it from another games perspective.

Some people in Minecraft just like digging holes.

Some people like building stuff.

Both are entirely valid, and correct ways to play the game.

And if someone said "Hey, can you put in a game-mode so that I can just build" There's nothing wrong with that request. You play the game your way, they play it theirs. The option is there.

They aren't lesser than you, they aren't bad or playing incorrectly. They are simply playing for a different reason.

The same goes for PoE. Some people just like being able to hit max level on a character. It's THEIR goal. That's how THEY enjoy the game.

And when you force everyone to interact with a system that makes that a frustrating experience. It has nothing to do with being good, or bad at the game. Some people just want to chill, and grind out levels in a game and blow stuff up. And there's nothing wrong with that, at all.

It's funny too, because. Most people that ask for it to be removed, are asking for the game to improve in other ways that challenge them. So the argument that they just want an easy game and will run in and die constantly is completely made up.

Have you ever tried it yourself? It gets old after 10 minutes.

It's even funnier too, because these players are literally telling you "Hey, if you give us this option, we'll play the game more", and by refusing them, you're essentially saying. We don't want more players!

Why wouldn't you want more players in a game? If all GGG had to do was add in an option to click on that removed XP loss on death, and it brought in 25% more players. Why in the actual fuck wouldn't you do that? Why would you spend your time on the forums berating them for not being 'good' players instead?

I haven't read the thread so excuse me please.

I just wanted to point something out, in Shadowbane (game from 2001) there was "Drop all loot on death" mechanic. It was horrible.

In PoE we have XP Penalty, Map Loss, and EVERYTHING on the ground in that map. But not the items in inventory and no durability loss.

What I find amusing, is that the point-of-importance, is XP(which involves REAL LIFE TIME to gain), while the items, gold, maps, etc are all gained as "drops" DURING the time spent to gain XP which translates into REAL LIFE TIME, not in game anything.

So what people are complaining about in regards to XP LOSS....IS NOT ACTUAL XP.
It's REAL LIFE TIME, spent in a game.

Hence why the punishment for dying, is bonkers when added onto everything else, that's hours of real life playtime, to cover the same "road distance already traveled".

That's like, your boss telling you to replay the same day because you got a bad reaction to something someone said in a conference room. Over and over and over, until you react differently.

It's odd. A game shouldn't punish real life time spent, to force more real life time to be spent. We play the maps for items, if the player dies, and the map is gone, remove the items too then, and everything, and leave the xp alone, you cannot remove experience, right?
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Much love to all, I hope you know my message is meant with respect for all sides of this topic. I don't like the xp loss either, but I wouldn't like all the items in my inventory gone on top of that, or the items I could have looted if I could just respawn. Ya know?



TLDR:
See how convoluted this topic can get?

And we all miss the entire point, it's about real life time spent that has to be re-spent on the same thing.

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Pinh3ad#2935 wrote:

Nothing you said makes sense.

Omen of Amelioration exist because at a certain point xp loss isnt enough on its own. So yea it's kind of a given that you always have one active and thats part of the "price" of dying.

No, you make no sense. The Omen of Amelioration is a significantly lower price to pay for death than the 10% exp penalty past lvl 95. It's not a price to pay, it is a way to buy yourself out of the majority of punishment.

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Pinh3ad#2935 wrote:

Your second point has nothing to do with this post.

IF youre happy at the level youre at, then why are you complaining?

My point 2 and 3 are a counter arguments to the argument that removing exp loss is economy breaking. It is not and the arguments show why.

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Pinh3ad#2935 wrote:

PS if you like diablo more, then play diablo? there are people that enjoy this game more than diablo and there are people that enjoy diablo more than this game. i think youre being more of an elitist wanting things to be a certain way not understanding that not everyone feels the way you do.

Not what I said. I reacted to the poster trying to poo poo on blizzard when their approach to the issue is not built around frustrating player progress and punishment. Which, yes, is objectively better game design in this regard.

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xaledaine#3868 wrote:

I haven't read the thread so excuse me please.

I just wanted to point something out, in Shadowbane (game from 2001) there was "Drop all loot on death" mechanic. It was horrible.

In PoE we have XP Penalty, Map Loss, and EVERYTHING on the ground in that map. But not the items in inventory and no durability loss.

What I find amusing, is that the point-of-importance, is XP(which involves REAL LIFE TIME to gain), while the items, gold, maps, etc are all gained as "drops" DURING the time spent to gain XP which translates into REAL LIFE TIME, not in game anything.

So what people are complaining about in regards to XP LOSS....IS NOT ACTUAL XP.
It's REAL LIFE TIME, spent in a game.

Hence why the punishment for dying, is bonkers when added onto everything else, that's hours of real life playtime, to cover the same "road distance already traveled".

That's like, your boss telling you to replay the same day because you got a bad reaction to something someone said in a conference room. Over and over and over, until you react differently.

It's odd. A game shouldn't punish real life time spent, to force more real life time to be spent. We play the maps for items, if the player dies, and the map is gone, remove the items too then, and everything, and leave the xp alone, you cannot remove experience, right?
----------------------------------------------------


Much love to all, I hope you know my message is meant with respect for all sides of this topic. I don't like the xp loss either, but I wouldn't like all the items in my inventory gone on top of that, or the items I could have looted if I could just respawn. Ya know?



TLDR:
See how convoluted this topic can get?

And we all miss the entire point, it's about real life time spent that has to be re-spent on the same thing.

I don't really think it's convoluted at all. It's really quite simple to see that some players value their time, and some don't. Some players value the thrill that the mechanic gives, and some don't. Some players derive an ego boost from the mechanic, and some simply don't care.

I see no problem with XP loss on death if people want it. I just feel it should be a choice. And I don't need ego andy's telling me how bad I am at the game because I just want to chillax in the evening after driving for 11 hours. I'm not here to perform. I just want to blow stuff up and grind out a couple max level characters, just like I do in WoW.

It's simply a matter of some people, not respecting that different playstyles exist, and they're all valid ways to play. And instead, resort to insults about how bad someone is, or how elitist the other person is. We're all just here to have fun. If more people realized this, there wouldn't be pages and pages of arguments on the forums about how there's a Correct/Incorrect way to play. There's no correct or incorrect way to play anything.


I look at it this way. Lots of game companies have a vision for their game. Lets take Skyrim for instance. Bethesda clearly crafted a detailed and meticulous game.

But then. They also added in the ability to mod the game, because they realized. Sometimes players like different things. If someone wants to play Skyrim with Thomas the Tank engine flying around and breathing fire. Well. They can do that. And it doesn't mean they're playing the game wrong. Just differently.

PoE/GGG could do the same. People don't like XP Loss? Okay. Make it optional. The game is fully capable of having different game modes/difficulties. It already has a few. If it brings in more players. It's a win. Everyone gets their slice of cake.