This is why ill never buy another supporter pack again.

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alhazred70#2994 wrote:

"

to take this thread more seriously than is deserves (OP's posting old news): good luck with that, precious few projects rise above the background noise and only a tiny fraction of those don't end up with massive changes and feature cuts due to compromises with publishers and playerbases who "demand" things that worsen the game.

Believe me, I'd love to hear of a indy team working on an ARPG thats trying to be a great hack and slash multiplayer game with meaty deep systems and character builds and such.

Like a lot of things I suspect the genre's golden age already happened though. it 100% depends on if GGG has the ball sack to balance POE2's endgame or leave it as a 1button imitation of POE1's runaway feedback loop of design mistakes (that they allowed to be recommited in 2)

Maybe generative AI developed games will allow some tiny teams to curate bold and uncompromising vision driven projects.

Nice snark, let me return it by saying that the poe 2 tourists are not and will never be the return players that have played poe 1 for 10 years and guided those designs you so loath, just for the fact that poe1 AND 2 requires more focused attention that any other AAA game, not many casuals are going to play a game full time that needs multiple monitors wikis and 3rd party sites to play efficiently.

So once tencent is done alienating all their poe1 players with failed promises and the poe 2 tourists move on to whatever is the next streamer flavor of the month they will be royally fucked.

This is the thing when you release a persistent online game, you can never turn it off and expect people to return but they are going to and will have to do it with poe 2 to bring it up to an acceptable level and cannibalizing poe1 resources and player base while doing it by dropping all development for it.

My prediction is by the end of this year both versions lose players and we average around 40k players each and tencent wont like that and i think they will EOS poe 1 late 2026

pretty sure you alienated yourself here, and certainly would be interesting to see % of long time poe1 players that dislike poe2 to the point of playing poe1 over it. intuition tells me its small

cringe

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AintCare#6513 wrote:

pretty sure you alienated yourself here, and certainly would be interesting to see % of long time poe1 players that dislike poe2 to the point of playing poe1 over it. intuition tells me its small

Considering that Phox's upcoming custom poe1 league had 30,000 players sign up for it almost instantly with thousands more still waiting due to the league cap, you couldn't be more wrong.

EDIT: This is a CUSTOM unofficial league by the way.. People are bursting at the seems for more poe 1 the entire reason they wont release a new poe1 league is it would instantly kill poe2's momentum with not good hopes of it returning.

30k, lets give generous 50k which will include everyone interested. to start - we look at steam charts and league starts usually hover around 150-200k on steam client only (% of total? who knows) so this makes the current league being at 30% the highest possible number. and again, intuition tells me this % is much lower if everything is accounted for. then you factor in that this number might include players that are just waiting for poe2 to get touched up/released or play both, making it even smaller portion.

THEN we gotta account for the fact that poe2 generated interest in both games+ % signing up for this private league of long time players vs played poe1 for <5 years...

"

alhazred70#2994 wrote:

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stormyknight#7628 wrote:

time to find a new indy company with dreams working from their garage.

to take this thread more seriously than is deserves (OP's posting old news): good luck with that, precious few projects rise above the background noise and only a tiny fraction of those don't end up with massive changes and feature cuts due to compromises with publishers and playerbases who "demand" things that worsen the game.

Believe me, I'd love to hear of a indy team working on an ARPG thats trying to be a great hack and slash multiplayer game with meaty deep systems and character builds and such.

Like a lot of things I suspect the genre's golden age already happened though. it 100% depends on if GGG has the ball sack to balance POE2's endgame or leave it as a 1button imitation of POE1's runaway feedback loop of design mistakes (that they allowed to be recommited in 2)

Maybe generative AI developed games will allow some tiny teams to curate bold and uncompromising vision driven projects.

A team is actually at work to cook a new H&S...
https://www.moonbeast.com/

They got a nice fee of 4.5M$ in december : https://venturebeat.com/games/moon-beast-productions-raises-4-5m-for-action-rpg/

This will potentially bring more competition to the ARPG market, but certainly to the detriment of PoE1, since it would force GGG to focus on one game only. They don't seem to be able to manage the development of two games in parallel, much to my disappointment...

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AintCare#6513 wrote:

30k, lets give generous 50k which will include everyone interested. to start - we look at steam charts and league starts usually hover around 150-200k on steam client only (% of total? who knows) so this makes the current league being at 30% the highest possible number. and again, intuition tells me this % is much lower if everything is accounted for. then you factor in that this number might include players that are just waiting for poe2 to get touched up/released or play both, making it even smaller portion.

THEN we gotta account for the fact that poe2 generated interest in both games+ % signing up for this private league of long time players vs played poe1 for <5 years...

Exactly, I don’t know what happened, but suddenly some people… I don’t know how to describe but they are personally attacked by PoE 2 somehow.

I agree with you, I believe the vast majority of PoE 1 players liked PoE 2 and are just waiting for updates at this point. It is not like people that will play the private league are PoE 1 exclusive players… I have no idea where this sense came from.

Besides, people are so mad at ggg that they are buying more of their stuff to play???? What is the sense of it? All in all, at least you have these private leagues things, if you want to, but because GGG wanted to create this mode to sell for their customers… It didn’t come from external sources.

All of this behaviour is very strange for me. Nevertheless, yeah they should have been more transparent in PoE 1 situation, however any person that have ever worked in a company and had to develop multiple projects at the same time could see this outcome. Even if you haven’t, you just need to check how it had worked in other games, or you have a massive amount of people working (and all the problems that this cause) or you prioritise, otherwise all products are prejudiced at the same time.

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stormyknight#7628 wrote:

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xjjanie#4242 wrote:

That's old news.

was new to me, i understood they sold a stake to tencent some time ago but was OOTL of them selling the entire company and personal shares too.

Few months before PoE 2 release there was a GGG insider who leaked that Chris never did came back into office since he sold his shares to Tencent and went into details how PoE 2 was badly managed by Jonathan who spent the last years focusing all resources on PoE 1 seasons & that he did spend the last months changing the design philosophy of PoE 2 / delaying release due to MTXs , and others important details .

Anyway all of that has been confirmed to be true since PoE 2 release and is exactly in line with these recent developments ( that Jonathan lied about 3.26 being cooked & him being incapable of managing two projects simultaneously ) . So yeah GGG is no different than the rest of the studios out-here and they need to get their shit together big time .

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Ashyev#5110 wrote:

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stormyknight#7628 wrote:

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xjjanie#4242 wrote:

That's old news.

was new to me, i understood they sold a stake to tencent some time ago but was OOTL of them selling the entire company and personal shares too.

Few months before PoE 2 release there was a GGG insider who leaked that Chris never did came back into office since he sold his shares to Tencent and went into details how PoE 2 was badly managed by Jonathan who spent the last years focusing all resources on PoE 1 seasons & that he did spend the last months changing the design philosophy of PoE 2 / delaying release due to MTXs , and others important details .

Anyway all of that has been confirmed to be true since PoE 2 release and is exactly in line with these recent developments ( that Jonathan lied about 3.26 being cooked & him being incapable of managing two projects simultaneously ) . So yeah GGG is no different than the rest of the studios out-here and they need to get their shit together big time .

Got a link to this insiders post or any evidence that this isn't just a narrative you're making up? Last we heard not long ago Chris is still on the payroll as the business lead. Chris was even in one of the recent league announcements in 2024 were he did an introduction and handed it off to Mark. Which would an odd thing to do if you weren't working their any more.

I like to think I'm tuned into things and never heard of any insider leak on reddit, this forum or any streamers even mention it. And the last thing I did see was that Chris is still running the business side and letting Mark and Johnathan be the public faces.

What I do notice over and over is some people like to just make up things like that narrative that there was a mass exodus which turned out to only be the German guy (Eric?) who left to go back home and start up his own game confounded with Bex leaving for a Rock Star games. Which not only didn't happen at the same time, but a year or more later the german guy was at Exilecon and very obviously not disgruntled.

"

alhazred70#2994 wrote:

Got a link to this insiders post or any evidence that this isn't just a narrative you're making up? Last we heard not long ago Chris is still on the payroll as the business lead. Chris was even in one of the recent league announcements in 2024 were he did an introduction and handed it off to Mark. Which would an odd thing to do if you weren't working their any more.

I like to think I'm tuned into things and never heard of any insider leak on reddit, this forum or any streamers even mention it. And the last thing I did see was that Chris is still running the business side and letting Mark and Johnathan be the public faces.

What I do notice over and over is some people like to just make up things like that narrative that there was a mass exodus which turned out to only be the German guy (Eric?) who left to go back home and start up his own game confounded with Bex leaving for a Rock Star games. Which not only didn't happen at the same time, but a year or more later the german guy was at Exilecon and very obviously not disgruntled.

Ask around on Reddit then and make your own opinion , the leak circulated there for months .