GGG if you want to retain players number you have to add an Auction House

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_N0ctus_#6387 wrote:

Auctionhouses in ARPGs are awful just look at D3. It ruins key ARPG aspects and if anything it makes ppl quit faster. Since if you can buy anything at any time and your loot 99% is worse than cheap ah items ppl will use it and get bored.

Well ultimately I'm with you that the core of the game should be killing monsters for loot. They say "no to hideout-warriors" to justify the removal of crafting but here we are with 99% of player power coming from trade ;)

So with trade being a love-child of GGG it at least should be convenient and not disrupt the actual gameplay as much. Having to whisper dozens of players who don't respond is stupid. All those bogus offers would also disappear with an AH.

Attach some kind of (gold) cost to it, like the cut WoW takes, so people who do want the old way can do it without such a cut.

no

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kamiknx#1162 wrote:

Wrong. The game has been around for over a decade without AH.

There are multiple reasons why an AH will not be added to the game.

And for over a decade players asking for an auction house or at least with a system different than this.

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IKerensky#7242 wrote:

Because the vast majority of people dont want to spendt there precious playing time sitting on their hands trying to make contact and dodging conmen and [Removed by Support].

I want an Auction House so I can just put things to sales at the market suggested price without having to do research and with garantee I will get payed what I asked.

I want an Auction House to I can at any time look what is to sell and buy it with a mouse click with no haggling, human interraction, delay or scam attempt.

I want an Auction House so trade interraction are monitored and the economy controlled with bot-protection and market dumping control.

I want an Auction House so I can have fun with the game.

Nah, don't need even easier way for your country to rmt

I am definitely FOR the auction house (or something like that). Trading is absolutely shit, either out of 10 people you reach out to no one answers you, or the person is afk, or when you find an item you would like to buy the player is offline etc. etc....
If for example Last Epoch can have a working AH, why not a poe?

According to Jonathan Rogers, "people will no longer accept an action RPG that doesnt have instant buyouts as for trade system, so therefore we will need to change and as i said yknow, thats we have to move with the times..." in an interview with Zizaran, so I hope they are serious and the current trading system will be replaced by something like AH/ or something where you can buy/sell without having to be online and meet players...

People arguing about implementing something from 2010 on a website that was designed in 2004...

get with the reality people

btw - the inventory system in this game is horrific too

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Gang5ter15#1071 wrote:

Well name reasons why AH is bad. Cause i dont see it.
An AH would mostly have way more advantages than disadvantages.

- It would get rid of Price Fixers

it would swap people fake listing items for farms of ai bots flipping items. you are buying an item, now instead of it taking 3 minutes it takes you 30s econds. you saved 2.5 minutes. the price for that is 10,000 bots having 10,000x more efficiency at being able to flip stuff, search markets, control them, profit from them.

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Gang5ter15#1071 wrote:

- Trades are way faster

is that a good thing? look at what this guy is saying...

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jojo1225#3785 wrote:

This issue has persisted in PoE for at least five or six years, and I’ve always maintained a 50/50 stance—I don’t fully support it, but I don’t oppose it either.

Its benefits are obvious: trading can be exhausting. Sometimes in PoE1, even when I have 100+ divines, if I want to create a new build, I need to spend 2-4 hours buying all the gear, gems, and jewels I need.

But...

so if you want gear worth 100+ divines for a new build it might take 2-4 hours to buy it.

ok, and how long to farm it yourself? 50-200 hours? more? maybe 4 hours could be argued that maybe 400 hours to find that same level of gear.

so thats good is it? that trade is even more powerful than that? that the difference in power between being someone who trades a lot and someone who trades a tiny bit or not at all should be even more insane than this?

how is that a good thing?


you get to skip 200 hours of farming and the take away is well still took me 4 hours, cant it be more like 4 minutes?

think about it from that perspective. pushing everyone who doesnt want to mass trade into solo self found single player mode because you had to massively nerf drop rates for traders thanks to gigajuiced ah trading?

that breaks down the community that kept poe1 alive. imo, not a benefit of an auction house, its an abomination that should never be allowed and would not just massively harm the game for the people trading and getting way too powerful with no effort it would also mean the game being totally imbalanced or requiring destroying the community of the game that is essential to its longevity by forcing a single player game on everyone else.

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Gang5ter15#1071 wrote:

- checking prices manually is faster then

again, is that good? mi knwo what u mean, from the perspective of me in this moment it saves me time. so would making 10x as much loop drop, i need to run 1/10 of the maps to get stuff. good?

its good in some ways but in a lot of ways its really not. removing all effort from a system that gives you insane levels of power in a game where playing the game gives you small amounts of power gradually for a lot of effort, is that actually a good thing?

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Gang5ter15#1071 wrote:

- Buying items that are low value is possible. With the current trade system many low level items cantr be bought cause nobody leaves a map for a couple ex

so flooding the market with gear and making it profitable so sell for lower prices because it takes 0 effort is good? i know what ur saying gang5ter, youre not neccesarily wrong with any of the things youre saying here and you make good posts on the forum i respect your opinions, and its perfectly fine to be of the opinion that nothing im saying here is relevant.

seeing it purely from the perspective of im a normal guy making a trade right now and guys in this situation should be the games priority, the qol of the normal guy making trades is the most important thing. thats a valid opinion, but the opposition to trade just has a different perspective on whats most important. so you might not agree with the things im saying but they are an alternate perspective.

more items for sale = bad, because its more power that can come from trade and trade is too powerful already.

cheaper prices = also bad, same reason.

0 effort = bad, things that bring power should take effort and knowledge. removing effort and knowledge from the most powerful loot acquisition system in the game = bad, really bad.

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Gang5ter15#1071 wrote:

- less frustration, people actually have to sell an item where they put in initally. No more throw it in for an ex get spammed change the price until u dont get spammed anymore. (those people have a really special place in hell)

absolutely. and look, theres a lot of good, all those things i just said were bad are also good for all the reasons you mentioned.

if everyone was a mass trader than there would be 0 reason not to do it. the reality is that theyre not, the devs have said that actually the people who trade a lot are actually a small minority. having the game balanced so that not trading is fine, trading a small amount is fine and trading a lot makes the game a bit of a joke but is also sort of fine because of super high end aspirational uber endgame still provides a bit of resistance, thats a hard balance to strike and poe1 managed to keep that balance there abouts for 12 years.


you bring in an AH, remove all the effort, remove needing to know stuff, massively increase the efficiency of automated bots? that would be catastrophic to that balance.


trade can be hard right now. guy in the thread saying i trade irl dont come here to trade? ok? well maybe dont trade then? its a thing, omg trade takes effort! again, ok? and? you still do it because its 1/100 of the effort of finding the same gear, aka playing the game you installed to play, is there a reason it shouldnt take effort? it takes knowledge of prices, metas, tools that you only know about when you get into the community? yeah, good, good that it takes knowledge, good that its hard to be good at trade. working as intended. it takes being good at clearing t15+ maps and pin bosses to get the best items too, welcome to a game where being good at it takes time, effort and knowledge? is that a bad thing?



see what im saying? its a different perspective and i know a lot of people here will say i dont care about that stuff, its all irrelevant just make my life as easy as possible. some people think the game should be easier in many places. i think the game should be easier in some places.

i dont think trade should. i argued for adding the currency exchange that we got because price fixing there was stupid and so was having to make 50 trades for the same fosil or essence 2 or 3 at a time etc. for gear? im no, never add an ah, if people dont enjoy trading they can just not trade and go play the game because thats where the game should be balanced properly anyway.

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SaiyanSS#7968 wrote:

I just want to sell my stuff while offline don´t care what you call it

This. I started to play POE on console only because there was an AH in POE1

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

it would swap people fake listing items for farms of ai bots flipping items. you are buying an item, now instead of it taking 3 minutes it takes you 30s econds. you saved 2.5 minutes. the price for that is 10,000 bots having 10,000x more efficiency at being able to flip stuff, search markets, control them, profit from them.

The same thing is happening right now. AIs can easily search and buy out everything. Because of the time it takes they can do that even better than a human. With an AH a human can do the same. If thats a good thing is up to opinion. The advantage of faster trades outweight the disadvantages for me.

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

is that a good thing? look at what this guy is saying...

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jojo1225#3785 wrote:

This issue has persisted in PoE for at least five or six years, and I’ve always maintained a 50/50 stance—I don’t fully support it, but I don’t oppose it either.

Its benefits are obvious: trading can be exhausting. Sometimes in PoE1, even when I have 100+ divines, if I want to create a new build, I need to spend 2-4 hours buying all the gear, gems, and jewels I need.

But...

so if you want gear worth 100+ divines for a new build it might take 2-4 hours to buy it.

ok, and how long to farm it yourself? 50-200 hours? more? maybe 4 hours could be argued that maybe 400 hours to find that same level of gear.

so thats good is it? that trade is even more powerful than that? that the difference in power between being someone who trades a lot and someone who trades a tiny bit or not at all should be even more insane than this?

how is that a good thing?


you get to skip 200 hours of farming and the take away is well still took me 4 hours, cant it be more like 4 minutes?

think about it from that perspective. pushing everyone who doesnt want to mass trade into solo self found single player mode because you had to massively nerf drop rates for traders thanks to gigajuiced ah trading?

that breaks down the community that kept poe1 alive. imo, not a benefit of an auction house, its an abomination that should never be allowed and would not just massively harm the game for the people trading and getting way too powerful with no effort it would also mean the game being totally imbalanced or requiring destroying the community of the game that is essential to its longevity by forcing a single player game on everyone else.

I simply disagree completely. You will still need a long time to search for the items you want. Even now the time you trade if you make a new build is miniscule, the time you search for something you want is the longest part. Of the 2-4 Hours over 90% of the time you are not trading. Youre searching. And that will stay the same with an AH.
The things an AH will make easier is Buying in Bulk, Stellar Amulets, Sapphire rings, Tablets, Maps etc.
Even now the game is forcing so many players into SSF because they dont want trading also because trading is annoying for many people. That wont change a bit if you introduce an AH, but thats my opinion. I cant say for certain thats the case and you cant either.

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

again, is that good? mi knwo what u mean, from the perspective of me in this moment it saves me time. so would making 10x as much loop drop, i need to run 1/10 of the maps to get stuff. good?

its good in some ways but in a lot of ways its really not. removing all effort from a system that gives you insane levels of power in a game where playing the game gives you small amounts of power gradually for a lot of effort, is that actually a good thing?

Its only faster if the devs add a price checking feature into the game itself. Otherwise its not faster. It takes the same time.

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

so flooding the market with gear and making it profitable so sell for lower prices because it takes 0 effort is good? i know what ur saying gang5ter, youre not neccesarily wrong with any of the things youre saying here and you make good posts on the forum i respect your opinions, and its perfectly fine to be of the opinion that nothing im saying here is relevant.

seeing it purely from the perspective of im a normal guy making a trade right now and guys in this situation should be the games priority, the qol of the normal guy making trades is the most important thing. thats a valid opinion, but the opposition to trade just has a different perspective on whats most important. so you might not agree with the things im saying but they are an alternate perspective.

more items for sale = bad, because its more power that can come from trade and trade is too powerful already.

cheaper prices = also bad, same reason.

0 effort = bad, things that bring power should take effort and knowledge. removing effort and knowledge from the most powerful loot acquisition system in the game = bad, really bad.

We have different opinions about an AH thats totally fine. I wanna point out one more thing. Flooding the market will still not be profitable. The value is to low and someone still has to byu it which wont happen for many items.

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

you bring in an AH, remove all the effort, remove needing to know stuff, massively increase the efficiency of automated bots? that would be catastrophic to that balance.

Automated bots wont be such a huge issue when you introduce an AH. I might be wrong there, but what are automated bots doing right now. The search for heavily underpriced items and buy them. They sell them for the accurate price afterwards. Thats what i think most Trade Bots are doing. Thats the easiest way to get money. After AH they will just do the same. Buying out everything wont happen as much cause its mostly not proifitable enough for bots to do that. I played and traded a lot in a lot of games and i rarely came across bots that did this on mass.

Last words. A lot of things you describe would only apply if the devs would actually add a price tag to items. I dont want that personally.

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

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Gang5ter15#1071 wrote:

- Trades are way faster

is that a good thing?

I say it is. You have a valid reasoning regarding converting time into power, but with your own numbers it's also pretty obvious that it's impossible to get time spent on trading and time spent killing monsters on equal footing.

At this point where trading(-> buying) for 4 hours gets you more power than 400 hours of playing, those 4 hours are meaningless anyway. Trade is easy mode and no one denies that - no point in punishing both buyers and sellers with this ancient system. If you play Baldur's Gate on tourist mode, you don't get 3min loading screens and 10 extra fetch quests before each major quest part (didn't test ;) )

Game spent ingame should be 95+% killing monsters. Change my mind.