Let's be honest here: Tailwind also granting increased evasion rating is overpowered AF

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auspexa#1404 wrote:

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EffKayZA#1861 wrote:

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auspexa#1404 wrote:

not rly? you can simply use hybrid gear in all slots and have like 6k es with grim feast

You need STR and INT for decent bybrid gear and that reduces your DEX to the point where you can't use your ranger skills or a high end DEX bow which requires 212 Dex.

And playing a Ranger without using the Ranger specific Evasion and Dex build is like playing a high INT Warrior or a High STR Witch.

Why would you do that?

All this talk about nerfing Wind Ward is just masking the fact that the other ascendancies need equally good nodes to make ascending worthwhile for them too.

you don't need str and 212 dex is nothing anyway

and most deadeyes are already playing with high ES, because eva/es nodes are literally next to ranger's starting area

why would you NOT do that?

even my poe 1 ranger builds have a lot of es in combination with life, because it's an additional defense layer you can build at a very low cost

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LVSviral#3689 wrote:

Having a "infinite cocaine if you don't get hit" ascendancy that simultaneously gives a massive amount of the "chance to magically not get hit" stat called evasion is wildly over-tuned. Movement speed and skill speed is already the best thing a player can get in this game.

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Slomo4shO#0350 wrote:

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LVSviral#3689 wrote:

Having a "infinite cocaine if you don't get hit" ascendancy that simultaneously gives a massive amount of the "chance to magically not get hit" stat called evasion is wildly over-tuned. Movement speed and skill speed is already the best thing a player can get in this game.

you seem to think evasion scales linearly. It doesn't. The higher the incoming damage, the less effective evasion is. Energy Shield is the best defensive stat by a long margin.

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LVSviral#3689 wrote:

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Slomo4shO#0350 wrote:

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LVSviral#3689 wrote:

Having a "infinite cocaine if you don't get hit" ascendancy that simultaneously gives a massive amount of the "chance to magically not get hit" stat called evasion is wildly over-tuned. Movement speed and skill speed is already the best thing a player can get in this game.

you seem to think evasion scales linearly. It doesn't. The higher the incoming damage, the less effective evasion is. Energy Shield is the best defensive stat by a long margin.

Evasion scales on enemy accuracy rating, not the damage of the hit. Armour is the defence stat that scales based on the incoming damage value of hits. ES scaling is irrelevant to this specific thread. Not to say the 3 primary defence stats don't need more innate balancing and tuning, but this is just a Tailwind thread.

The raw skill speed and movement speed granted by Tailwind already makes it extremely powerful as a singular ascendancy passive, even before granting any form of defensive bonus. It's just overloaded.

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What is the comparison then? Want to compare it with Arcane Surge with 2 more modifiers without any requirements? I mean remove Evasion make it more instead, no Deadeye would dare to complain about that.

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VolkiRosso#4831 wrote:

Deadeye main here since from poe1 ( i also used to play with scion bow builds), tailwind you talk about is not OP. It is needed. Right now even with 10stacks TW you still need total of over 24K evasion rating + hp + resistances + ms + bla bla. Without acrobatics a simple corpse explosion one shots you from over screen ( they re gonna adress that next patch).

2nd tailwind provides 1 time %30 dmg reduction which also needed because we can't stack armour.

As for skill speed and movement speed ? Well its ranger and deadeye. Should be the most agile class in the game as GGG mentioned even on character selection.


I still think Deadeye Ascendancy talents are weak. Hawkeye for example completely useless since the character is high dex build. Avidity meh. Additional projectile weak.


So yes if you can have GGG attention on Deadeye please tell them buff more.

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Deadeye main here since from poe1 ( i also used to play with scion bow builds), tailwind you talk about is not OP. It is needed. Right now even with 10stacks TW you still need total of over 24K evasion rating + hp + resistances + ms + bla bla. Without acrobatics a simple corpse explosion one shots you from over screen ( they re gonna adress that next patch).

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2nd tailwind provides 1 time %30 dmg reduction which also needed because we can't stack armour.

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As for skill speed and movement speed ? Well its ranger and deadeye. Should be the most agile class in the game as GGG mentioned even on character selection.

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I still think Deadeye Ascendancy talents are weak. Hawkeye for example completely useless since the character is high dex build. Avidity meh. Additional projectile weak.

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So yes if you can have GGG attention on Deadeye please tell them buff more.

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LVSviral#3689 wrote:

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What is the comparison then? Want to compare it with Arcane Surge with 2 more modifiers without any requirements? I mean remove Evasion make it more instead, no Deadeye would dare to complain about that.

Let's compare it then:

The Stormweaver's arcane surge grants 10% more cast speed and 20% more mana regen.

The Deadeye's tailwind grants up to 10% increased movement speed, 30% increased skill speed and 150% increased evasion rating.

In order for 30% increased skill speed to be worse than arcane surge's 10 more cast speed you would need to already have 200% increased global skill speed. Most builds have like 50-75% increased at most from non ascendancy sources.

Movement speed and mobility increases are also far more scarce to acquire than mana regeneration or other sources of mana sustain. I'd argue movement speed is also far more powerful as a stat in general.

While Tailwind can be lost when hit unlike Arcane surge, the raw movement and skill speed bonuses make it harder to get hit already and offer far more potential power than arcane surge can bring to the table.

I'd argue Tailwind even without evasion rating would still be at least equal to, but probably still far stronger than Arcane surge as a comparative independent ascendancy option.

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cavexs#4102 wrote:

Not sure what "most deadeyes" you mean. You either go for Acrobatics or for high ES, you cannot do both.
You technically can go for the nodes that give you 2 Evasion per 1 ES on helmet and the 1 ES per 12 Evasion on Body Armour. That gives you around 800 ES if you have a 2k+ evasion body armor and a 350+ ES helmet (that requires 140ish int that cannot be covered fully by the tree). You might go for the amulet anoint for 70÷ more ES on helmet leaving you around 1,1k ES. In order to do so you have to sacrifize a ton of damage. I did exactly that to set myself up for ghost shroud and grim feast while maintaining 75÷ evasion with acrobatics (including Wind dancer and tailwind and somewhat below 60÷ without).
We are talking about a 100div+ budget here and doing the math a pure ES build can achieve the same ehp easier (no need for high life rolls). Also ES CI is covering Dots [edit: wrongly wrote aoe in the version before] (and negates the most annoying chaos bombs provided by ritual and Expedition that simply oneshots every other defense layer) while Evasion doesn't even with acrobatics. And that's the only situation where you actually really need the 150÷ increase provided by tailwind.

Hybrid gear on the other hand will never provide you with enough evasion to actually run acrobatics. High numbers on Evasion without acrobatics penalty can be achieved by anyone and with hybrid gear but that alone is pretty useless without second defense layer. So you can have 85÷ of that and if you are lucky tailwind contributes another 1-2÷ to that. However most oneshots and overpowered mechanics people are complaining about are not covered by evasion in this way. You theoretically have a nice ehp but only as long as you fight white skelleton archers.

Nerf ES make tailwind permanent I guess?