We need to raise our voices for Auction House system

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Legoury#0138 wrote:

I just want to make an exercice about how would be PoE2 with an auction house.

An auction house = more players using trades (by far).

More players using trades = more transactions = more currencies used as transactions.

More currencies used = more bots or bots are more effective.

More bots = a lot of work to GGG to avoid them deregulate market.


So if GGG just put an auction house, it means they need to put in place some devs to take care of it, fix it, find a way to take care of some bots,...
Because if we have an auction house in current situation, Im 100% sure players would complain about bots, price fixing, maybe some duplication of items or currencies. So it means a lot of work before that to prevent bots to do this, to find a way to avoid price fixing,... and a lot of work after that to avoid all abuse.
So less devs working on actual game, more just to take care of auction house, for almost nothing to earn for GGG.
And all of that depends of how this game is coded.

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AstroShade#7322 wrote:

Or they could just do what LE does and have a separate currency based on killing monsters/completing maps that is required for trading, which severely limits the amounts of trades that can be done at a given time. This makes it much harder to manipulate/control the market because individual characters can only do so many trades at once before they have to go back and farm mobs/maps.

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AstroShade#7322 wrote:

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Legoury#0138 wrote:

I just want to make an exercice about how would be PoE2 with an auction house.

An auction house = more players using trades (by far).

More players using trades = more transactions = more currencies used as transactions.

More currencies used = more bots or bots are more effective.

More bots = a lot of work to GGG to avoid them deregulate market.


So if GGG just put an auction house, it means they need to put in place some devs to take care of it, fix it, find a way to take care of some bots,...
Because if we have an auction house in current situation, Im 100% sure players would complain about bots, price fixing, maybe some duplication of items or currencies. So it means a lot of work before that to prevent bots to do this, to find a way to avoid price fixing,... and a lot of work after that to avoid all abuse.
So less devs working on actual game, more just to take care of auction house, for almost nothing to earn for GGG.
And all of that depends of how this game is coded.

Or they could just do what LE does and have a separate currency based on killing monsters/completing maps that is required for trading, which severely limits the amounts of trades that can be done at a given time. This makes it much harder to manipulate/control the market because individual characters can only do so many trades at once before they have to go back and farm mobs/maps.

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Tommo26#1554 wrote:

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AstroShade#7322 wrote:

Or they could just do what LE does and have a separate currency based on killing monsters/completing maps that is required for trading, which severely limits the amounts of trades that can be done at a given time. This makes it much harder to manipulate/control the market because individual characters can only do so many trades at once before they have to go back and farm mobs/maps.

Have you seen the bot farms? And the inevitable AI automation of gameplay which will make those bots behave human enough not to be detected?

With the game becoming F2P on launch, I don't think it's possible at all to have a functional AH that doesn't completely kill the experience of trade league.

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Legoury#0138 wrote:

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AstroShade#7322 wrote:

"

Legoury#0138 wrote:

I just want to make an exercice about how would be PoE2 with an auction house.

An auction house = more players using trades (by far).

More players using trades = more transactions = more currencies used as transactions.

More currencies used = more bots or bots are more effective.

More bots = a lot of work to GGG to avoid them deregulate market.


So if GGG just put an auction house, it means they need to put in place some devs to take care of it, fix it, find a way to take care of some bots,...
Because if we have an auction house in current situation, Im 100% sure players would complain about bots, price fixing, maybe some duplication of items or currencies. So it means a lot of work before that to prevent bots to do this, to find a way to avoid price fixing,... and a lot of work after that to avoid all abuse.
So less devs working on actual game, more just to take care of auction house, for almost nothing to earn for GGG.
And all of that depends of how this game is coded.

Or they could just do what LE does and have a separate currency based on killing monsters/completing maps that is required for trading, which severely limits the amounts of trades that can be done at a given time. This makes it much harder to manipulate/control the market because individual characters can only do so many trades at once before they have to go back and farm mobs/maps.

It seems you dont know what bots are capable of.
They can easily farm T15 maps. Your currency (another one ?) to trade in auction house would be totally useless against bots.
And bots dont need to trade 100 times per hour, just to trade best items with only few of this currency you talk about...

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AstroShade#7322 wrote:

But you do have to trade hundreds of items per hour to control a market. There are thousands of people farming chase items- look at something like ingenuity last season. At any given time there were thousands of postings for it. It's very difficult to control the market when there are thousands and thousands of listings for the same item, simply because the supply volume is so large.

It seems like you should play LE and see how it works, because it's great and is quite functional. It's also much easier to bot in LE beacause the game itself is much easier and the skill sets very limited... and yet the AH just works and proves there's no excuse to not have it in PoE other than to make trading painful for the player (this is actually stated in GGGs vision: we don't have an AH because they want the game to be painful). It only ran into problems when there were item dupes running around in previous patches, but that's going to ruin the market whether there is an auction house or not.

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Legoury#0138 wrote:

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AstroShade#7322 wrote:

But you do have to trade hundreds of items per hour to control a market. There are thousands of people farming chase items- look at something like ingenuity last season. At any given time there were thousands of postings for it. It's very difficult to control the market when there are thousands and thousands of listings for the same item, simply because the supply volume is so large.

It seems like you should play LE and see how it works, because it's great and is quite functional. It's also much easier to bot in LE beacause the game itself is much easier and the skill sets very limited... and yet the AH just works and proves there's no excuse to not have it in PoE other than to make trading painful for the player (this is actually stated in GGGs vision: we don't have an AH because they want the game to be painful). It only ran into problems when there were item dupes running around in previous patches, but that's going to ruin the market whether there is an auction house or not.

For me, if PoE2 take the trading system of LE, it would create a lot of issues :
- easiest way for cheaters to buy the only money/currency uses to trade. And so, easiest way for "boting" people to sell this money/currency for real money.
- huge market for both cheaters and boting people because PoE2 would have millions of players for 1.0
- because PoE2 would be a free game, it would be impossible for GGG to shut down cheaters and boting players (I doubt they would develop an anti-cheat as Riot with Vanguard...).

And again, 2 things I dont know about but that could be an issue for GGG : code of the game and how its made to implement an auction house and how many devs would have to dev then to check this auction house.

And yeah, since day 1, GGG said they dont want an auction house. For me, its mainly cause they still can manage the pace of their own game without it. If everytime I reach end of campaign, I can go in auction house, buy a stuff to do some T15 maps, whats the purpose of maps T1-14 ?

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AstroShade#7322 wrote:

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Legoury#0138 wrote:

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AstroShade#7322 wrote:

But you do have to trade hundreds of items per hour to control a market. There are thousands of people farming chase items- look at something like ingenuity last season. At any given time there were thousands of postings for it. It's very difficult to control the market when there are thousands and thousands of listings for the same item, simply because the supply volume is so large.

It seems like you should play LE and see how it works, because it's great and is quite functional. It's also much easier to bot in LE beacause the game itself is much easier and the skill sets very limited... and yet the AH just works and proves there's no excuse to not have it in PoE other than to make trading painful for the player (this is actually stated in GGGs vision: we don't have an AH because they want the game to be painful). It only ran into problems when there were item dupes running around in previous patches, but that's going to ruin the market whether there is an auction house or not.

For me, if PoE2 take the trading system of LE, it would create a lot of issues :
- easiest way for cheaters to buy the only money/currency uses to trade. And so, easiest way for "boting" people to sell this money/currency for real money.
- huge market for both cheaters and boting people because PoE2 would have millions of players for 1.0
- because PoE2 would be a free game, it would be impossible for GGG to shut down cheaters and boting players (I doubt they would develop an anti-cheat as Riot with Vanguard...).

And again, 2 things I dont know about but that could be an issue for GGG : code of the game and how its made to implement an auction house and how many devs would have to dev then to check this auction house.

And yeah, since day 1, GGG said they dont want an auction house. For me, its mainly cause they still can manage the pace of their own game without it. If everytime I reach end of campaign, I can go in auction house, buy a stuff to do some T15 maps, whats the purpose of maps T1-14 ?

It's clear you've never played LE. You literally cannot buy one of the currencies used for trade. You have to earn it by completing content. It's not tradeable. There are two currencies involved in trading: gold, which is what the seller gets, and favor. Favor can only be earned by doing things in the game. You cannot buy/trade it. You also can't even unlock it until midgame towards the end of the campaign- you're not going to be making a new account just to try and break trade. So you're whole "PoE is free, it wont work because of that" is just wrong. This combo of late unlock combined with a separate, non-tradable non-buyable currency is why it stops RMTing.

Your player count arguments make no sense. The current LE season has a larger active player base than PoE2 according to steam charts- right now PoE2 peaks at 100k, LE around 130k.

And GGGs arguments for not wanting the auction house are just full on garbage with the most twisted logic you'll ever see. Because they believe "friction" is the only thing keeping player counts from dropping. When actually most people probably leave because they hit maps, cant do them, and have no easy way to access gear improvements because trade is basically non functional in PoE2. And so they leave at hitting maps/end game. If there was a functional AH, they'd probably stay around longer as they would have access to more content they could actually do.