POE 2 Complete PC Freeze while loading screen

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Cainrith#2807 wrote:

Vulnerability is one part of the equation, the more important part is the exploiter. And sometimes "vulnerability" is due to the alternative being more inconvenient for a good-faith user. Think it like this: You can simply not put windows when building a house, this way you can avoid burglars coming in. There is no longer a "windows vulnerability" in this case. But not having a window in your home is not really a desirable outcome for the regular people so we make do with creating closable windows, putting window guards etc... At this point you are reasonably protected and if a burglar were to weld open those irons well... That's on them.

PoE2 is a bit different.

In this analogy PoE2 is your mate's 5 year old kid who is running in your house, breaking things. You really want to spend time with the kiddo because you were abroad while he was growing up so you only had some videos and pictures but at one point the damages rack up and you wonder if he needs professional help. When you ask your mate, his wife evasively mumbles something about conduct disorder but assures you that this only seems to happen in homes with people in it.

At this point your windows being open is not related to the damages you have incurred.

Furthermore, I ask anyone who sees this message to please give a negative review for Path of Exile 2 on Steam.

Not very accurate analogy but if the window in our house is a sort of "vulnerability" and presented as a gaping hole it's design flaw. A window is not just a gaping hole. We will use a frame, glass or plastic. Or even a composite material. And also, if neccessary, a steel grate on the outside to protect the window from the bulgers. And also an alarm and a controller that checks the integrity of the window. Because it is question of time when someone will throw a ball or rock in the window and may damage coffee machine or someone from our family. Relying on the attacker that it WON'T do this is a bad approach. And it doesn't matter who will be: Cyberpunk 2077 or Path of Exile 2

With such decision we would still using WIndows 95 (or even MS DOS) architecture that is complete mess in terms of security and stability.

As for the kid example. Kid should not access the internals of our house and it's in our power to restrict access. Just let him go in the special designed kid room where you don't find sharp edges, electricity cables and switches, computers, oven, hot water, knives, forks and other dangerous stuff. Letting kid to have access to the critical and dangerous part in your home is very bad decision and we're responsible for that, not a little kid.

This is why the entire industry are working hard on the security, on patching, on discovering potential holes and vulnerabilities. Community has tons, I'd say huge amount of guidelines and practices what you can and what you can't do as a developer, especially if you're working on kernel mode services, because it's VERY critical and sensitive part of the modern OS.

The modern OS divided on two parts with a very high fence. Ring 0 with critical part and ring 3, where "kids" can do whatever they want. It was made for the reason. Security and stability are priority.

Microsoft Learn: User mode and kernel mode


I am not forcing you to listen me or even trust, but make your own research how the things work in the modern OS (including *nix). You will discover some interesting concepts and probably find how fragile the OS stability in terms of kernel mode services (including device drivers). And this is VERY big problem because the complexity of KMS code growing everyday. But on the other hand user mode application rarely crash or lock your system because of total isolation from the critical components like OS kernel and hardware.

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MorwoPoE#3287 wrote:

https://github.com/Kapps/PoEUncrasher

this worked for me now, about 50hr no hard freezes. useally got one every 1-2 hr

edit:
the log displayed by the PoEUncrasher app can show when a hard freeze is also been avoided by the app.
yesterday i have had plenty such entries, no freezes tho. lets see whats in for today

haven't had any freezes since using this app

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cursorTarget#1174 wrote:

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Cainrith#2807 wrote:

Vulnerability is one part of the equation, the more important part is the exploiter. And sometimes "vulnerability" is due to the alternative being more inconvenient for a good-faith user. Think it like this: You can simply not put windows when building a house, this way you can avoid burglars coming in. There is no longer a "windows vulnerability" in this case. But not having a window in your home is not really a desirable outcome for the regular people so we make do with creating closable windows, putting window guards etc... At this point you are reasonably protected and if a burglar were to weld open those irons well... That's on them.

PoE2 is a bit different.

In this analogy PoE2 is your mate's 5 year old kid who is running in your house, breaking things. You really want to spend time with the kiddo because you were abroad while he was growing up so you only had some videos and pictures but at one point the damages rack up and you wonder if he needs professional help. When you ask your mate, his wife evasively mumbles something about conduct disorder but assures you that this only seems to happen in homes with people in it.

At this point your windows being open is not related to the damages you have incurred.

Furthermore, I ask anyone who sees this message to please give a negative review for Path of Exile 2 on Steam.

Not very accurate analogy but if the window in our house is a sort of "vulnerability" and presented as a gaping hole it's design flaw. A window is not just a gaping hole. We will use a frame, glass or plastic. Or even a composite material. And also, if neccessary, a steel grate on the outside to protect the window from the bulgers. And also an alarm and a controller that checks the integrity of the window. Because it is question of time when someone will throw a ball or rock in the window and may damage coffee machine or someone from our family. Relying on the attacker that it WON'T do this is a bad approach. And it doesn't matter who will be: Cyberpunk 2077 or Path of Exile 2

With such decision we would still using WIndows 95 (or even MS DOS) architecture that is complete mess in terms of security and stability.

As for the kid example. Kid should not access the internals of our house and it's in our power to restrict access. Just let him go in the special designed kid room where you don't find sharp edges, electricity cables and switches, computers, oven, hot water, knives, forks and other dangerous stuff. Letting kid to have access to the critical and dangerous part in your home is very bad decision and we're responsible for that, not a little kid.

This is why the entire industry are working hard on the security, on patching, on discovering potential holes and vulnerabilities. Community has tons, I'd say huge amount of guidelines and practices what you can and what you can't do as a developer, especially if you're working on kernel mode services, because it's VERY critical and sensitive part of the modern OS.

The modern OS divided on two parts with a very high fence. Ring 0 with critical part and ring 3, where "kids" can do whatever they want. It was made for the reason. Security and stability are priority.

I am not forcing you to listen me or even trust, but make your own research how the things work in the modern OS (including *nix). You will discover some interesting concepts and probably find how fragile the OS stability in terms of kernel mode services (including device drivers). And this is VERY big problem because the complexity of KMS code growing everyday.

The kid analogy was about how the kid was behaving in a way we are not expecting a kid(even the most "normal" problematic kid) to behave but it seems the analogy was too tangential for it to be understood.

Basically mother that did not tell that kid had a conduct disorder is GGG not telling us that their game hard crashes PCs due to improper use of System APIs. But anyway...

When you are releasing a game to Windows platform or Linux (which is also affected by this issue) you should be working within the limitations of that platform. The platform will have many parts that any knowledgeable person can exploit, especially if their program is installed as a trusted installer program, and given permissions due to their status.

There are people out there that can easily write a software that bricks your PC if you give their program your PC's fan controls. This doesn't need kernel access either.

When working within a system, you must always work within its constraints. If the current paradigm is Windows then you must code your program within Windows' limitations and if it has a vulnerability it is your duty to not touch it as long as you're providing a product for your own gain(be it monetary gain or other).

It's like driving on the left side of the road or using Imperial system. I don't like it, but when in UK do as the British do. I can't start driving on the right one day and tell the police that the traffic laws and regulations have a vulnerability for right-side drivers.

Furthermore, I ask anyone who sees this message to please give a negative review for Path of Exile 2 on Steam.

My WHOLE PC FROZE. I had to press the power button on my tower to reset it. It wouldn't let me alt ctrl del or alt f4, or ANYTHING. This happened to me 3 times in 15 mins...

and now I am too scared to log into the game!!!!!

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Reid91#2041 wrote:

Their response is bellow the standards of what a company who just made $30m+ beta testing their game should be. They are not a little indy company anymore and do not deserve some sort of free pass for a massive f**K up.

exactly!

Even with Poeuncrasher, I often experience hard freezes, usually 1-2 times a day. However, thanks to this tool, I can still enjoy playing. Many times, it has helped me recover from these freezes, thanks to its real-time priority feature.

vulkan
5700x3d
4070tis
w11_24h2

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gordonho97176#4465 wrote:

Vulkan + PoE Uncrasher are the cure

100% the cure. been running all week with it and zero crashes.

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Arrancar#8243 wrote:

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gordonho97176#4465 wrote:

Vulkan + PoE Uncrasher are the cure

100% the cure. been running all week with it and zero crashes.

That is not a cure. No game should need a random person on the internets program to not crash.

That is called a band-aid fix, it works around the problem but the Game itself still has the problem. Do not be complacent about this. Its great that you are trusting enough to use another program to be able to play. Many cant/wont. and even some others are not haveing success with uncrasher.

So no its not a cure. Enjoy playing that you are lucky enough it works for you. Hopefully you will not need it in the near future.

4 hours with PoEUncrasher on default settings. 0 crashes but the Uncrasher has recovered me out of at least a dozen potential hard crashes. Have to test more extensively but it's actually made the game playable.

Still sad that someone in the community did this before GGG. Props to that guy!

kept hardcrashing while entering a map called abyss Tier1.
Settings where Vulkan + disabled multithreading + 170fps

gtx 4060 ti
ryzen 7x 7800x3d
windows 11