PoE2: One death in map and its bricked.

As per title (and yes you can exit and return for say loot, or play coop and get revived) but this is excessively punitive and is imo wrong. For the solo player (and there are many of us, and new players who don’t know anyone yet) this means you die once and learn nothing about how or why (because GGG refuse to give us death reports) so how do we learn and progress our playing skills (especially for tactical bosses)?
@GGG please rethink this so there is a more forgiving deal for solo players, thank you.

Edit: To clarify some things already discussed in the thread…
I have no objections to the one portal death being a thing, it’s that it’s not a choice and is default softcore that is the issue. (Add it and ssf as selectable ‘mods’ on character creation)
I love the tactical and thoughtful gameplay it appears we need for PoE2, bring it on.
I don’t want an easy to play PoE1-like experience.
I agree with death xp penalty and love bosses resetting on our death (but if we can’t go back why do they?)

Nah
It's a good system to reward skill and well optimized characters/gameplay rather than handing out instant gratification to 6 portal zhp glass cannon corpse runners.

This system would fit really well into PoE1 as well tbh.

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Pashid#4643 wrote:

Nah
It's a good system to reward skill and well optimized characters/gameplay rather than handing out instant gratification to 6 portal zhp glass cannon corpse runners.

This system would fit really well into PoE1 as well tbh.

Spot the hardcore player (joke).
Seriously with PoE it wouldn’t be so bad tbh, but PoE 2 is so tactical especially bosses it’s a bad thing and prevents learning from mistakes and I fear will discourage/lose new players and some less experienced current PoE ones.
I have not a single objection to deaths resetting bosses, thought that was harsh (by current standards) but fair and maybe a good idea.

I had a big discussion about this system with my friend just after the presentation and it was about the potential flaws of the proposed system (please keep that in mind that the EA is not out yet!)

It might works, of course, but there are some quirks that might be worth to discuss among devs.

You have one shot for each map - it might be difficult to learn the endgame - even Devs said that you are expect to die with bosses. And Map Bosses have better/changed AI. So learning is still ahead of us, even when we finish the Campaign. So it is contradicting, learn by play vs you have only one shot.

The simplest possibility is to left the mechanic from POE1 - 6 portals, 6 attempts and you still need to clear Boss in one run (it heals after you die/leave the room)

But there are some suggestion to tweaks/changes (that is the aim of this forum section, right?)

Let's assume that every Map you open with your Ticket has set parameters - rolled affixes, number of monsters (1 unique, 10 rares, 90 blues, 1000 whites); seed for generated terrain and any mechanics implemented by Tablet or spawn naturally.

So you are expected to gain some EXP, some currency and items - as the number of monsters, boxes and boss are finite.

You start the Map (T12 for example) and after killing 20% (and looting some) you died. You receive death penalty. Map is no longer red/bricked but loose 1 attempt (out of 6 for solo player) but you have 5 more attempts to hop in and try again (learning by loosing). You killed 15% more monsters, looted some currency and died again. Ten % of exp is gone again and only 4 attempts left.
You started to think that maybe you are not ready yet - should exp somewhere else, gain more currency and gear (as Jonathan suggested).
So you decided to go the other side of the atlas / open nodes and do some maps on T9-T11 and gear up/exp up. Now your stats are better, more Health, more DPS. You are ready to go back to the previous map.

Now, on the initial side there is still "a map" locked in the Atlas - with 65% remaining monsters and mechanics waiting for you with 4 attempts. You are now stronger, clear all trash and died on boss (still, you need to clear it in one attempt, as in the Campaign).

3 attempts left. But now you know that on 40% health Boss is spinning and you need to backup.

You went back to portal (no checkpoints, so you run back to the boss if you not prepared portal) and faced Boss at 100% HP - with knowledge of game mechanic you finish the map and loot the rewards.

Amount of loot and gained exp (not counting the one that you lost) is the same as the number of mobs/mechanics on the map is finite and you just clear it partially - so no option to abuse a system.

You paid the price (use ticket) to open it and it stays open. So you still need a Ticket (Map) and when you have like 5 paths from the node, you can't open thousands and hoping for the best.

But you can try to go through this node as the next one is the one you want to run.

If you failed 6 times, the map (area, node) is reset - new node appear, it is white and cannot be rolled (so no additional rewards), just plain white map experience and drops.

Now it is only an obstacle to run through to get to next nodes. You lost 60% of your exp, some time, drop that you did not gain when you died 6th time with some part of map not cleared and also potential drop from this node when it turns "white" - (!) gained some personal experience though.


There is some space to discuss between no cost at all walking the park with the map that can be run on its own when you are watching TV on the background and system when one mistake is blocking your path/node permanently and you can't play the game that you love.

Devs want to crank up difficulty? Suggest not to play HC on the first attempt? Okay, let's see how its unfold, but it is not possible to learn the game when you have like one attempt.


EA starts soon, so we can check how it works but as a suggestion for Devs how to potentially handle this case if the current system turns out to be too oppressive and punishing.

Sorry some of what you are saying is (by poe1 standards) normal mapping access, but with poe2 tactical learning required on top.
I have no issue with a boss resetting if I die and having to start him again, I do have issue with one and done portal policy in soft core and it’s a semi-hardcore policy that could be (like ssf) a soft core option but as a default forced policy it will (I am personally confident) loose them players ( more new ones and some old more causal ones) and hence revenue. I am happy to accept that those sorts of players should or have the choice to play poe1 instead but from a company perspective I’d would hope for fans to play both and this will thin the potential player base of Poe 2 (again imho)

It's grow up or blow up time, kids. Better work on getting good!

I very much doubt it's gameover after one death. Footage clearly shows 6 portals, thus 6 attempts (5 deaths).

And current PoE 1 system is also "bricking" the map after all portals are gone. Only difference would be a permanent red dot on your Atlas.

[delete]

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crash0verwr1te#3720 wrote:

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ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate#2605 wrote:

It's grow up or blow up time, kids. Better work on getting good!

[Removed by Support]

This from people who enjoy challenging gameplay where the players' decisions and skills have consequences.

But hey, you're free to choose to blow up if that's your thing! I'm not your dad.

The POE2 atlas is infinite; that also means boss encounters and maps are basically infinite too. There is always a way around after "failing."

Yes according to the content reveal video, pinnacle bosses have "one attempt" and then "move on" on the atlas. So basically find them again, do them again to an endless degree. Thus "resetting" the bosses in the process.

(For me) it wasn't clear if those pinnacle encounters have 6 portals or just one portal. It could be either in my opinion. Maps and other "league/side" content in general do have 6 portals, thus 6 attempts, 5 deaths. That is quite clear and plenty. Q&A seems to "confirm" that death on a map indeed means the map is gone.

I don't think it's any different from pinnacle bosses or maps in POE 1. Currently we have "find/farm" the fragments. Sure we can also trade those fragments in a trade league, but maybe those keys for the "maze tower" are also tradeable? Who knows?
Same for maps, you have find that map again to run it again.

Add to that, that pinnacle bosses are the hardest content in POE 2; you're not supposed to have easy access to it, and you will fail. Even the veterans of POE 1 will most likely fail that fight several times over.
Keep in mind that this type of content also is meant to be played on a decently build character fit for that content. Which currently no one knows how such a character would look like in POE 2. The possibilities are endless.

Rest assured there be will players/streamers that figure it out rather quickly and share it for others to enjoy/attempt too.

POE 2 will be an entirely new game and experience with a learning curve for everyone. It's up to each individual player to decide if such game content is for them or not. I for sure will try; but won't enjoy the game less if I can't beat it at a first attempt lolz.

Getting some incentive on what killed you to improve your build is a whole other topic though. But from the Q&A I understood that boss fights are more technical with dodge rolls and moving around (avoid getting hit) less about gear. Thus it's about learning the fights, which can only be done by keep doing them, and not giving up. It will costs time, sometimes without (ingame) rewards, but rather "knowledge" of what not to do and what works.

It's also early access, so things will keep changing for sure.