My last 2 cents on settlers

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exsea wrote:

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Piousqd wrote:

First off, I appreciate that you put a lot of time into this post, and gave a pretty fair accounting.


However, I would point out that a lot of your core/balance suggestions are based around the experience of a very casual / low time investment player. For those of us that play a bit more, many of the suggestions would be negative. For example, the resource nodes in maps being removed. They are great! They add extra monsters into the map for free, making more drops, and bismuth adds a loot bonus to whole map.

I won't discount the FOMO, but it is important to recognize that GGG has to try and balance content for both ends of the time investment spectrum. You says gold generation is an issue, but a juiced T17 can yield 300k+ gold per map. I'm not saying you should expect to be able to run those, but something to keep in mind when saying not enough gold drops. I would argue that a bit of FOMO is what keeps the game engaging, something to chase after.

i just saw this, probably missed it on my first read thru.

300k for one t17 juiced? damn! i probably can run that but i m trying to level to 99 now. risk of dying could be simply too high.

tho i would say for players to get all the way up there to "finally enjoy the league" is a pretty tall order.

yea 300k+ is insane and requires a good build and expensive scarabs. But there are plenty of options for 100k+ a map.

The 300k+ map example:

75% + player IIR (I run rarity suffix, but not gold flask) and utmost amulet.

T17
70%+ pack size
130%+ rarity & packsize
40%+ delirious

Scarabs:

Bloodlines
Glittering
Wisp x2
Influenced Hordes
Monsterous Lineage

Domination map device, all map explicit increase nodes on passive tree.
Pick up all eldritch quant alters, hope for a covetous shrine from domination.

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SilentSymphony wrote:

+1 i really like that efficiency mode as a QOL, Imagine if that had made it into this release.

you know whats sad?

the league is ending.

you being an oldie i think you remember how leagues originally were made to be beta tests for content to be put into standard.

even if ggg were to implement some of what i mentioned, do they have the time to code/do internal testing to get it into the game before the league ends.

many players have many ideas. many have contributed to the feedback forums.

but the most significant change i remember this entire league was dust being reworked (nerfed)

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Piousqd wrote:

yea 300k+ is insane and requires a good build and expensive scarabs. But there are plenty of options for 100k+ a map.

The 300k+ map example:

75% + player IIR (I run rarity suffix, but not gold flask) and utmost amulet.

T17
70%+ pack size
130%+ rarity & packsize
40%+ delirious

Scarabs:

Bloodlines
Glittering
Wisp x2
Influenced Hordes
Monsterous Lineage

Domination map device, all map explicit increase nodes on passive tree.
Pick up all eldritch quant alters, hope for a covetous shrine from domination.

seriously wow. thats a whole nother level. on one hand its impressive, on another hand it makes me sad as it solidifies what i mentioned about how the game is balanced around top percenters.

the in between of alc and go t16s vs what you mentioned is so huge i cant compare.

sometimes i get a few k gold or even 10k gold. vs what you mentioned its ridiculous.

most players would ever get to that level

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exsea wrote:

for your first point it is a fair point on face value. we slowly progress thru the atlas and we gain access to harder maps and harder content. if we cant handle it we remain running lower tier content.

for myself, i can run most t16 maps alc and go. its one step behind the hurdle of doing t17s alc/chaos and go.

isnt that already at a very end level of the games progression? what content do i need to do in order to keep my gold level at a level which i can feel comfortable spending it? my upkeep is roughly 200k gold per day. rerolling hires for good hires is roughly 2 hours worth of gold.

Maybe I can help you bust through that wall and blast Kingsmarch. And yes, I do run 3 map devices. They run whenever I'm playing, and always leave a fresh set to run when i log off for the evening. My gold cost is probably around 1 mil/24 hrs, assuming mappers run 3 sets of maps @ 15 min ea in the 24 hr period.


1. Rarity = more gold. This is not intuitive, unlike pack size and quantity, which also equal more gold. Run a gold flask if your build can support it, even if its only when doing content below your max difficulty. (I run a gold flask in T16, but swap it for more damage/spell suppression in T17)

2. With the above in in mind, atlas points and map rolls matter. If you arent rolling your maps for rarity/pack size/quant your gold will suffer. If you can handle T16 8-mods, run those. Ideally just farm them in a easy T17, buying them with a regex is kind of a pain. (Let me know if you need the strat for this)

3. More mobs = more gold. Things that add monsters to kill equals more gold. There are lots of strats that are good for this.

In T16 I usually run:

-Incursion/T17 map farm on 8-mod Strand. ~20k gold/map, but very fast maps.

-Harbinger on 8-mod City Square. ~50k gold/map, slower maps.

(You can also look up dedicated gold-farm strategies, but unless you are primarily engaging in a game mode that doesnt drop any gold, I suggest just optimizing the farm of your choice for a little exra gold. Both of these T16 strats are focused on other things, with gold as a byproduct)


T17 is where you really bust through the kingsmarch wall though. When I was mainly running T16's, I only ran 1 map device at a time, and would add in a 2nd whenever I had a surplus of gold. I was still generating a lot of gold, but was using a ton to roll for lvl10 farmers and mappers.


T17 I usually run:

8-mod map farm on sanctuary. ~70k gold/map. run whenever I am out of T16 maps

Nemesis/Adversaries scarab farm. ~95k gold/map. Low investment farm by t17 standards.

Bloodlines/wisp farm. ~120k gold/map. Have stopped using this due to increase in bloodlines cost. Nemesis better value IMO

Bloodlines/glittering/wisp. ~200k+ gold/map. Very expensive cost per map, ~4d. Easy way to replenish gold and high jackpot odds.


Lately what I have been doing is running the nemesis scarab farm, and saving my really well rolled maps for the glittering setup. With the current cost of glittering and bloodlines, you are basically happy if you break even on drops, but are greatly increasing your odds at a jackpot drop, with the added benefit of getting enough gold to last you the day.

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exsea wrote:

seriously wow. thats a whole nother level. on one hand its impressive, on another hand it makes me sad as it solidifies what i mentioned about how the game is balanced around top percenters.

the in between of alc and go t16s vs what you mentioned is so huge i cant compare.

sometimes i get a few k gold or even 10k gold. vs what you mentioned its ridiculous.

most players would ever get to that level

This league mechanic is actually one you can balance yourself you know? It's up to you how high you go with your workers and their numbers. The upkeep you need for it is clearly displayed in form of wages and whatever strategy you map with, you should have a feeling of how much gold returns it nets you. Your job here would be to match those two. Either by not going full ham with your town or by changing/upping your mapping strategy. Honestly, 200k upkeep? Permanently? Did you recruit only level 10 guys for everything? And then you wonder that alch and go t16 doesn't cut it?

Shipments with ~1 mio value regularly return divines. If you are hot for mirror shards you can do this as well it's just going to take longer. With only t10 farmers it takes a week to get enough crop for a 50 mio shipment. Don't know how long it will take with t9 or lower but you could still do it with more time. If you don't aim that high and stick with multiple ships with ~1 mio value you can go with WAY less. My upkeep is ~5k. 10k when i send ships out. My miners and smelters are all still low tier, no point upgrading them as even with tier 1 and 2 they still get the job done quickly enough with how many maps i am running. The only things where you really "need" higher tier workers is shipping and mapping.

What you seemingly have done here is equivalent to buying a bunch of t17 maps, slap 5 deli orbs on each and try running them while you are still dying 5 times every map running alch and go t16. You bit of way more than you could chew and now you are struggling to keep up.

If you are a casual you won't be getting the same riches as the no lifers. You should know this by now. I know you disagree and if you wanna petition GGG to make it so go ahead but they likely won't do it. Doing that would put off a good chunk of their playerbase.

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exsea wrote:

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Piousqd wrote:

seriously wow. thats a whole nother level. on one hand its impressive, on another hand it makes me sad as it solidifies what i mentioned about how the game is balanced around top percenters.

the in between of alc and go t16s vs what you mentioned is so huge i cant compare.

sometimes i get a few k gold or even 10k gold. vs what you mentioned its ridiculous.

most players would ever get to that level

I can't say what percentage of players get to that level, but I know that quite a few people in my guild run the same strat and none of us are streamers/full time players. But yes, definitely not for all players, and I think that gap is the only reason POE remains as popular as it is.


Try one of my T16 strats tho, both will get you more than the gold level you are talking about. Harbi trees set for chiseled maps, take out Chiseled Perfection point if running 8-mod corrupted with no quality. The opposite for Alva, swap accordingly.

Harbinger:

Atlas: https://poeplanner.com/a/OAo

Scarabs:
Harbinger x3
Harbi Warlord
Harbi Regency

Map device: Harbinger
Map: City Square. Run to center and kill boss first for better alters.


Incursion:

This is the alva strat I use. I have since dropped the single extra point in harvest, but other than that remains unchanged.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3579729

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exsea wrote:

seriously wow. thats a whole nother level. on one hand its impressive, on another hand it makes me sad as it solidifies what i mentioned about how the game is balanced around top percenters.

the in between of alc and go t16s vs what you mentioned is so huge i cant compare.

sometimes i get a few k gold or even 10k gold. vs what you mentioned its ridiculous.

most players would ever get to that level

I didn't read ur initial post, so sorry in advance if there's anything that goes against what I'm writing now.
Also is it not meant to be condescending or in bad faith.

U chose to not research anything about the league, just doing ur own thing seemingly without the ability to understand alot of how the mechanic works.
I get that it's not very intuitive, especially the rarity part for Gold, but u're playing PoE long enough that u should know that every league mechanic in PoE is multi layered and has some "hidden" mechanics. If u're not some incredibly high IQ player with alot of time on ur hands the best way of getting information about that is watching/reading about it in various ways.

This league I discovered some new creators on YT I hadn't heard of before, just because they were putting out useful videos about the mechanic. And once u understand how gold works, it's much easier to make sense of everything else that works around gold.

The next problem I have is that u call "alc and go" as "in between". That it not true. "alc and go" is the beginning of grinding T16 maps.
(I don't want to go into a build discussion here, but usually u shouldn't have too many problems with alc&go once u reached T16 maps. If u do, it might be better running T14s with higher IIQ and scarabs instead until ur build adjusts)
After that u progress to using cheap scarabs, to 8-mod with better scarabs and ultimately maybe delirous 8-mod with scarabs problably targeting T17 map drops.
There's also different T16 map strats without going the T17 route of course, but again u need to do research.
T16 8-mod maps with cheap scarabs and some IIR will net u around 20-30k gold each with a properly setup Atlas. (nothing fancy, just increased explicit and shrines)

T17 is the progression phase after that and obviously scales way harder, but still the same rules apply. U don't start with a 300k gold map setup. U work ur way up and even in the beginning u're still getting upwards of 50k gold per map.

Anyway, got a bit ranty which wasn't intended. I hope u understand that I'm trying to change ur perspective on progressing through the mechanic instead of giving up because u can't imagine it urself.
I know u think the unintuitiveness of it is bad, but I'd say that is exactly the reason alot of players enjoy PoE. It gives them grounds to figure stuff out. U're not supposed to figure it all out by urself, it's called a community effort and is specifically designed as such by GGG.

Keep it up and hopefully ur next league experience will be more enjoyable :)

/edit: Just read something of ur original post about Gold and I can see where ur issues are. It's basically the FOMO that GGG created. I'd say I'm usually pretty detached from feeling FOMO in almost all situations, but I can see where that's coming from in this case.
It is probably something GGG has to think about implementing in the future, because when u think about the Settlement logically, it doesn't matter if u run out of gold when u dont play the game.
In no league before Settlers did u get anything while being offline. It's the first one and it really doesn't give u anything when u think about it, it just delays the rewards u already played for.

So getting detached from FOMO is easier said than done of course and I see where it produces a negative feedback loop for people that can't keep the town running all day, every day. So in part I agree with u, even if I don't think that quantity of Gold is the problem... the FOMO created by the design of Settlers is.

Per the Wiki:

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Each job rank provides an approximate 30-50% more multiplier to their job's perk (e.g. job speed) or provides additional risk reduction from the previous rank, in the case of Shipping or Mapping. However, wages increase faster than job speed...

Let me make it clear that I am quite the scrub player, and I don't trade for gear to make builds optimized for late endgame. Therefore, the content I am able to do is limited to maps in the low teens, at best, which limits my Gold income in Settlers. So, I've structured my labor force to suit my income. I run level 1 Farmers, Miners, Disenchanters, and Smelters, who can get the work done while I'm offline and have things ready for me to ship out with my level 6> Sailors on two ships (I'm mainly chasing runes, so it's Ribenfell and Pondium almost exclusively). That keeps me mapping at a comfortable pace (now that I've maxed out mining), providing sufficient raw materials to sustain all my operations.

Will I be receiving Mirror shards from my shipments? Of course not. But that's not the level I play at. I'm very happy to receive some sweet rares and 6Ls occasionally, along with random currency and, of course, runes.

It takes all kinds, I s'pose. =^[.]^=

My issue with settlers is that good rewards are and were too rare for me to even want to engage with shipping or mapping. I do haven't seen two of the bosses, and I have been looking for them. It's the only reason I have mappers or miners at all.

I use a unique weapon so no runesmithing at all.

Without faustus this league is dealer thab dead.

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Piousqd wrote:

Maybe I can help you bust through that wall and blast Kingsmarch.

ive taken note of all that you mentioned. will attempt it later once i level up more. i m currently 98 which is the highest i've ever gotten in temp leagues so i dont want to "bite off more than i can chew" for now.

thanks for your pointers