Game is turning into a glass cannon only builds

I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with since it seems like a standalone post but in terms of player experience I agree that it is not the best for new players and there are many ways to improve the experience for everyone (fear & loathing of change aside).

PS5 has NO GAMES apparently so it is a bit of a wasted opportunity.

"

BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

What this community really loves doing is to inflate numbers. Be it player numbers or PoB stats.

Just cherry picking this out but this summarises anything where statistics are heavily used, mostly because said stats are never really held to any account.

Conversely anyone with the right background can generally decipher pretty useful information from the same stats.

Statistical interpretation is a skill and a high valuable one, most of us don't have the experience to have it except for specific niche areas. I can spot a bullshit PoB easily for example because I make my own builds and I'm very experienced with PoB itself - I can't however make anything other than anecdotal evidence whenever statistic based discussion comes up about overall player trends.

Not enough experience/skills, not enough information.

What I can say about a particular part of this topic that comes up and I have to parrot endlessly is steam vs standalone client is absolutely irrelevant. Stans with an axe to grind love to try and debunk a point because it uses the steam data and it just doesn't matter. The steam playerbase is high enough that you could use it as the basis for any stats you wanted to if correctly interpreted.

The only way steam vs non-steam would matter is if there was some extremely statistically relevant reason why one would be preferred that might also have systematic differences. For example if only people age between 40 and 30 could use steam.

That isn't the case though so it really doesn't matter if steam usage is 20% or 90%, 20% would already be a far greater sample size than used to generate and present any statistical trend you've read about.

Edit: note that doesn't mean that interpretation of values based on the steam value is correct, just that the fact they are based off the steam client isn't relevant. Bad conclusion is a bad conclusion.

You wouldn't if you couldn't even postulate a reason why they would be different, It wouldn't be considered excellent data but it also wouldn't be considered worthless either.

I think I can give a relative simple variable:

Players from Vietnam.

Unless my cursory search completely lied to me Steam is currently banned in Vietnam. So any player playing from Vietnam would have to play through Standalone.

Another example would be Steam Trading Card bots, if they exist for POE they will only exist on the Steam version.

So taking a sample from just one of the two populations will oversample one of these two groups unless you control for those variables.

Weirdly people often refuse to believe facts.

Many players don't even make it to maps. "Many" is an understatement for more than 70% of your player base...

It is like saying I don't believe these people are even POE players. Their view of POE player base seems extremely skewed. PoE is full of casuals and make lots of money from them. Although GGG never cater for them.

I don't get how people can stay alive in this game in hc right now tbh. Just leveled a ssfsc char to maps to see if I could do it deathless only made it deathless to act6. Anyhow I think defenses could use a buff especially early on idt you should need max rolled life on every gear to stay alive while leveling.

"

newbutnot wrote:

I don't get how people can stay alive in this game in hc right now tbh. Just leveled a ssfsc char to maps to see if I could do it deathless only made it deathless to act6. Anyhow I think defenses could use a buff especially early on idt you should need max rolled life on every gear to stay alive while leveling.

The problem is GGG trying to kill top players and doesn't take proper account and make allowances for bad players or people who are poorly geared.

You have top players who can face tank bosses and people who randomly get one shotted.

People cheat death by logging out quickly...

There's not much fixing it without addressing the playstyle.

It all starts to merge and accomplish the same things the further into the game you go. Everyone's attack speed and AoE goes up. Range goes up. Move speed goes up.

The screen space and enemy AI/ attacks are limited. The playstyle is limited.

In a sense the Isometric viewpoint is the first and last limitation.

To get the most value out of having 7 characters each with unique identity, you have to lean into that and limit progression. Fill out the character -- rather than gear up and into a whirlpool of clearing mindlessly.

That's the only way you work within the limited space.

What's great about Isometric is what's great about melee though. If the game slows down some it's easy to put some more finesse and technique into melee. The limited isometric view is just fine for a melee character.

If you want to adapt Isometric to ranged gameplay/ playstyle you have to unfixture the camera.
< Allow characters especially Ranger to 'Focus' and look further in 1 direction probably on Hold of some button, and have the capacity to zoom out more. Probably have a button to zoom in a large amount so it's easier to click on a specific enemy
< Default camera should be a bit more closer in. This is good for Melee and feels less Toy Soldier.
< Strength sense lifeforce. Doesn't work on Undead or creatures of the Night I guess, and abilities can suppress one's Presence. Rage senses enemies. Have Rage leech -- keep low don't go crazy; minimum rage very good here and gives Undead etc more interesting qualities. Lower vision with leech. Leech overall can be a lot better an undead/ evil thing . . . Sensing enemies easy if you are in the middle of battle or have minimum rage.
< In general it makes sense that if a character can see an enemy the player should, so some indication that there are enemies in a direction once the character can see them is good.
< Give Witch magic sight to see behind a wall after channeling something.

> Cone of Vision with very limited Circle of Vision/Sense to introduce more directional stuff -- Perception on someone like a Ranger comes in handy here. Stealth and Ambushing becomes a thing.

I don't think it will happen though.

I hope they try working on a PvP client with new code-base from scratch so that eventually they can redesign the game to be more comprehensive. And so it's easy to get 60 fps stable on a 2020 Office PC, which is necessary for adding more elements to the game that might slow the PC and just good for player count & $$$.

PoE 1 might become the funnel for getting some money while pushing those who upgrade their PC into PoE 2. Since MTX carries over it should be effective and lowish-maintenance once established well. People need motivation for upgrading their PC and usually this is 1+ games. People buy consoles for the game selection, for instance.

Each limitation, character identity aligned to Attribute, and ability is an opportunity for new Gear by the way.

EDIT:

PoE 2 seems to have competent leadership, and have addressed a lot of the shortcomings of PoE 1.
I do not think the leadership is much different or higher than other good development studio leadership in the industry with 10+ years doing 1 thing (besides aesthetics which is a bit better), especially considering 2000 - 2010 leadership which is a bit easier to think about personally, but it is good.
I am considering the leadership by its reflection or influence on the product here, as well as commonality in their words/ responses in interviews.

Without PvP prototyping for PoE 1 on the horizon I do not think there is a reasonable expectation for balance in the first game.
PoE 2 addresses the title of this thread but I wonder if there will be confidence in this direction given their seeming lack of monetization.
This of course can wither a branch and all hopes & dreams invested into it, as collateral.

It is a coin-flip in my mind: how likely it is there will be a slide-back to PoE 1 glass cannon pack clearing and hasty monetization for PoE 2. Even if the game generates reasonable profits there is an invisible specter haunting people -- am I failing by not making more money? Is this what people wanted? Is this what I want?

25 - 33% is a reasonable profit margin. 50% suggests robust stability. Will Tencent demand more or will GGG? Some game publishers consider anything below 100% profit margin (doubling one's investment) a complete failure.

Currently, Ticketmaster and LiveNation has venues stuck with 2% profit margin so it could always be much worse. https://youtu.be/u--se25_px8?feature=shared

I hope the planning & decision-making is free and orderly over at Grinding Gear Games.

"

Dylan_Schreiner wrote:

There's not much fixing it without addressing the playstyle.

It all starts to merge and accomplish the same things the further into the game you go. Everyone's attack speed and AoE goes up. Range goes up. Move speed goes up.

The screen space and enemy AI/ attacks are limited. The playstyle is limited.

In a sense the Isometric viewpoint is the first and last limitation.

To get the most value out of having 7 characters each with unique identity, you have to lean into that and limit progression. Fill out the character -- rather than gear up and into a whirlpool of clearing mindlessly.

That's the only way you work within the limited space.

What's great about Isometric is what's great about melee though. If the game slows down some it's easy to put some more finesse and technique into melee. The limited isometric view is just fine for a melee character.

If you want to adapt Isometric to ranged gameplay/ playstyle you have to unfixture the camera.
< Allow characters especially Ranger to 'Focus' and look further in 1 direction probably on Hold of some button, and have the capacity to zoom out more. Probably have a button to zoom in a large amount so it's easier to click on a specific enemy
< Default camera should be a bit more closer in. This is good for Melee and feels less Toy Soldier.
< Strength sense lifeforce. Doesn't work on Undead or creatures of the Night I guess, and abilities can suppress one's Presence. Rage senses enemies. Have Rage leech -- keep low don't go crazy; minimum rage very good here and gives Undead etc more interesting qualities. Lower vision with leech. Leech overall can be a lot better an undead/ evil thing . . . Sensing enemies easy if you are in the middle of battle or have minimum rage.
< In general it makes sense that if a character can see an enemy the player should, so some indication that there are enemies in a direction once the character can see them is good.
< Give Witch magic sight to see behind a wall after channeling something.

> Cone of Vision with very limited Circle of Vision/Sense to introduce more directional stuff -- Perception on someone like a Ranger comes in handy here. Stealth and Ambushing becomes a thing.

I don't think it will happen though.

I hope they try working on a PvP client with new code-base from scratch so that eventually they can redesign the game to be more comprehensive. And so it's easy to get 60 fps stable on a 2020 Office PC, which is necessary for adding more elements to the game that might slow the PC and just good for player count & $$$.

PoE 1 might become the funnel for getting some money while pushing those who upgrade their PC into PoE 2. Since MTX carries over it should be effective and lowish-maintenance once established well. People need motivation for upgrading their PC and usually this is 1+ games. People buy consoles for the game selection, for instance.

Each limitation, character identity aligned to Attribute, and ability is an opportunity for new Gear by the way.

EDIT:

PoE 2 seems to have competent leadership, and have addressed a lot of the shortcomings of PoE 1.
I do not think the leadership is much different or higher than other good development studio leadership in the industry with 10+ years doing 1 thing (besides aesthetics which is a bit better), especially considering 2000 - 2010 leadership which is a bit easier to think about personally, but it is good.
I am considering the leadership by its reflection or influence on the product here, as well as commonality in their words/ responses in interviews.

Without PvP prototyping for PoE 1 on the horizon I do not think there is a reasonable expectation for balance in the first game.
PoE 2 addresses the title of this thread but I wonder if there will be confidence in this direction given their seeming lack of monetization.
This of course can wither a branch and all hopes & dreams invested into it, as collateral.

It is a coin-flip in my mind: how likely it is there will be a slide-back to PoE 1 glass cannon pack clearing and hasty monetization for PoE 2. Even if the game generates reasonable profits there is an invisible specter haunting people -- am I failing by not making more money? Is this what people wanted? Is this what I want?

25 - 33% is a reasonable profit margin. 50% suggests robust stability. Will Tencent demand more or will GGG? Some game publishers consider anything below 100% profit margin (doubling one's investment) a complete failure.

Currently, Ticketmaster and LiveNation has venues stuck with 2% profit margin so it could always be much worse. https://youtu.be/u--se25_px8?feature=shared

I hope the planning & decision-making is free and orderly over at Grinding Gear Games.

That is an awful lot of colorful text for basically adding nothing of relevance to the actual topic at hand. Still confused on why you are so hung up on PvP prototypes (lol) when all GGG needs to do are meaningful number changes to underperforming abilities and archetypes.