Perspective Shift from a Second Leaguer ft. another 100 Uber Sirus (no Loot Breakdown)

I would say OP noone, including me who agrees with the TLDR, is gonna read that long post.


But for the people that dont want to "git gud", theres no convincing them. Even with data or examples.

Not to sound doom and gloom about it that is.

Just look at all the people complaining about loot this league, its pure skill issue they know it. But nothing you provide evidence wise will change that. And they will just continue to provide nothing on their end.

You just have to hope GGG sees all this, and doesnt cater to them.

"

Mashgesture wrote:

I would say OP noone, including me who agrees with the TLDR, is gonna read that long post.


But for the people that dont want to "git gud", theres no convincing them. Even with data or examples.

Not to sound doom and gloom about it that is.

Just look at all the people complaining about loot this league, its pure skill issue they know it. But nothing you provide evidence wise will change that. And they will just continue to provide nothing on their end.

You just have to hope GGG sees all this, and doesn't cater to them.

I personally think GGG is not given how poe2 combat looks. I just can't imagine how big of a bloodbath the online community would be when the majority of the poe1 players die hundreds of times during just act 1...

Yeah, I totally understand that the length of my post alone would deter lots of people from reading, but I'm pretty happy just writing it myself, and I see it mostly as a personal record of how I grow/change my mindset as a poe player. If there's one person who at least understands what I'm saying that's a bonus. And if a new player somehow in some extremely unlikely cases happens to read this and know that there's a different approach to the game than what 99% of Reddit posts and content creators tell them, then it's a truly blessing.

Thanks for reading and the reply!

You gotta understand that the people who complain, most of them anyway, feel contempt towards those who don't have the issues they do. Open up a random complaint thread and you'll find insults, the usual being "nolifers" thrown willy nilly. They do NOT want to improve but for the game to change to accommodate them

OP you are clearly motivated to improve so you do, nothing more to it really :)

just to go over your bit in bold about boss guides though that is a core design choice within PoE which is to let you overpower bosses to a ridiculous degree. That isn't a recent thing either, every league I can remember the "boss" guide videos 9/10 were someone killing them in sub 5 seconds showing no content at all.

Over time some creators have started to take the time to do better ones, I think i watched Sirgogs for Admiral Valerius this league for example (ironically a boss so simple nothing was actually needed) and his coverage was much more useful however there are still plenty of them showing instant deletion.

That is a design choice though and one GGG have enabled more and more so the playerbase runs with it. Most bordering on all boss fights can be done without any knowledge at all with a powerful enough character either defensively or offensively its only when you go in with scuffed values that challenge is present.

Players get to those values earlier and earlier due to more players being knowledgeable of and treading down the meta path. I think if they gave everyone like a standard value off meta character It would be shocking how few players actually knew the bosses.

There was a HC rip clip of players dying to meteor on regular Sirus this league buying a carry and I couldn't get over that players would buy a carry for regular Sirus :/ its hard to put yourself in the shoes sometimes. But the tldr is boss content is actually irrelevant to most players because it can be cleared without any input so why make videos for it?

"

ballhog2016 wrote:

"

DiabloImmoral wrote:

I mean your tl:dr at the top is "git gud" and nobody is going to read a single word past that if we're being honest.

I'll never understand why some people in this community are so allergic to the concept of getting good, to be honest. I've played lots of games that involve mechanical skills and game knowledge, but I've never seen a get-good allergy on such a scale to the point that people would rather do anything than get good. And they'd still complain about how hard/punishing/unrewarding this game is when it's really one of the easier games out there.

It's not about allergy to getting better, in most cases anyway. Many people just don't like being looked down upon. If you really want to help someone there are ways of doing that without being a condescending jerk, you chose to be one anyway. So maybe that tl:dr is the reason your reddit post got removed.

"

Johny_Snow wrote:

You gotta understand that the people who complain, most of them anyway, feel contempt towards those who don't have the issues they do. Open up a random complaint thread and you'll find insults, the usual being "nolifers" thrown willy nilly. They do NOT want to improve but for the game to change to accommodate them

Well, it's mostly the lack of self-awareness from many complainers that drives me a little mad tbh.

They CHOOSE to play in SC trade, which is already the easiest version of the game - still complain about how things are too rare or expensive.
They CHOOSE to follow builds that rely on 6 portals as defense without looking much into it - still complain about white mobs being overturned b/c they believe they are playing a tanky build, at least according to the build maker, yet still get one-shot
They CHOOSE to grind the most boring div/hr strats themselves rather than spend 20 minutes learning mechanics so that they don't even need all those divs to beat the game - still manage to find an angle to complain how grindy the game is and how certain boss phases are not skippable with mirror-tier gear.

"

Baharoth15 wrote:

"

ballhog2016 wrote:

"

DiabloImmoral wrote:

I mean your tl:dr at the top is "git gud" and nobody is going to read a single word past that if we're being honest.

I'll never understand why some people in this community are so allergic to the concept of getting good, to be honest. I've played lots of games that involve mechanical skills and game knowledge, but I've never seen a get-good allergy on such a scale to the point that people would rather do anything than get good. And they'd still complain about how hard/punishing/unrewarding this game is when it's really one of the easier games out there.

It's not about allergy to getting better, in most cases anyway. Many people just don't like being looked down upon. If you really want to help someone there are ways of doing that without being a condescending jerk, you chose to be one anyway. So maybe that tl:dr is the reason your reddit post got removed.

Wow wow some strong words for someone whom you never met or talked to in real-life before, brother. Maybe you could have somebody delete this one right here too?

TLDR.

The game doesn't care about certain groups of players. What make some people like this game drive others away. This game isn't making itself fun by making itself accessible, understandable, and engaging. If they don't find the game fun, I assure you people will quit playing before they "git gud".

Nobody "git gud" if they quit first.

"

Draegnarrr wrote:

OP you are clearly motivated to improve so you do, nothing more to it really :)

just to go over your bit in bold about boss guides though that is a core design choice within PoE which is to let you overpower bosses to a ridiculous degree. That isn't a recent thing either, every league I can remember the "boss" guide videos 9/10 were someone killing them in sub 5 seconds showing no content at all.

Over time some creators have started to take the time to do better ones, I think i watched Sirgogs for Admiral Valerius this league for example (ironically a boss so simple nothing was actually needed) and his coverage was much more useful however there are still plenty of them showing instant deletion.

That is a design choice though and one GGG have enabled more and more so the playerbase runs with it. Most bordering on all boss fights can be done without any knowledge at all with a powerful enough character either defensively or offensively its only when you go in with scuffed values that challenge is present.

Players get to those values earlier and earlier due to more players being knowledgeable of and treading down the meta path. I think if they gave everyone like a standard value off meta character It would be shocking how few players actually knew the bosses.

There was a HC rip clip of players dying to meteor on regular Sirus this league buying a carry and I couldn't get over that players would buy a carry for regular Sirus :/ its hard to put yourself in the shoes sometimes. But the tldr is boss content is actually irrelevant to most players because it can be cleared without any input so why make videos for it?

Yeah, I totally get that. There's a quite well-edited and comprehensive Uber bosses guide on tube with only 20k views over the course of 8 months while some low-quality currency strat vids that streamers make on the fly during stream get 100k+ in only two days. I wouldn't want to make another video like that if I were the tuber, either.

It's funny cause I remember searching for POE-related stuff online when I kicked off last league as a complete newbie. The most salient info/posts/vids or whatever out there are almost always either some currency strategies/exploits or complaints about certain things. I learned divine orbs are valuable before even knowing what they do simply cauz everyone else seemed to value it. I learned mageblood should be something to chase before I even knew what it was and if it truly benefited my build much cauz everyone else acted like they'd kill to get one. I learned to complain about things before I even had a chance to interact with them to form my own opinion cauz I felt like everyone else was complaining. I followed build guides from build makers who eagerly labeled their builds T17 viable yet didn't care to explain or justify their decision-making processes, such as why they'd call a build with only a four-digit phys max hit "super tanky," cauz everybody was talking about how op off-screen clearing builds are instead of how to build proper defenses.

Guess what I'm trying to say is that it's kinda sad/unhealthy (or at least to me) that most of the things new players like myself are likely to learn about the game when they start off are just so homogeneous to the point it's almost inevitable for them to have the impression that grinding meaningless div/hr strats, buying mageblood and other gg items, and then one-shotting all monsters in the game is the only way to go. And these many of these new players would eventually turn into the same type of players because of this too.

"

awesome999 wrote:

TLDR.

The game doesn't care about certain groups of players. What make some people like this game drive others away. This game isn't making itself fun by making itself accessible, understandable, and engaging. If they don't find the game fun, I assure you people will quit playing before they "git gud".

Nobody "git gud" if they quit first.

I totally agree. But I feel like a lot of new players who would've enjoyed the game or had fun for longer were driven away because of how the definition of fun is sorta dictated by the most dominating narrative on the internet.
Imagine you're a complete newbie. As a new player, you have to look up things online for info/advice when it comes to a complex game like poe. You then encounter a bunch of div/hr vids and complain posts before you even have a rough idea of what the game is about. After listening to people who claim they've made 10+ mirrors every league over the past few years, you then jump onto the bandwagon, playing the most meta builds that allow you to farm a shit load of currencies without having to learn anything else at all.

But somehow something that you benefited from got nerfed the next league or simply because "the ground loot feels terrible," suddenly the game becomes a big pile of shit to you cauz you remember you learned from other old players that the only thing fun about poe is "farming tons of currencies and breaking the game with mirror-tier items/builds." And if that many people tell you this, it must be true. And if you you can't achieve that, you either quit or keep playing while complaining at the same time, which is a miserable state. And if you choose the latter, you just become one of the complainers that you saw in those posts, telling new people how unfun the game has become cauz you're less rich than previous leagues and poe is all bout getting rich and op gear. Or, for some odd reasons, you might also start ignoring all of these and relearning everything about the game all over again to have your own kind of fun, but I doubt lots of people choose this.

But it doesn't have to be either if more veteran players/content creators could simply tell new players there is more than one way to play/enjoy the game or there's more than one type of fun you can have in poe from day one.