What do you hope vs expect from 3.25?

Good lord; is this a reasonable, well thought out, concise, and relevant Kopogero thread with no grandstanding?

I am genuinely shocked.

Oddities aside, I hope we get a reasonably complex league which focuses more on adding gameplay elements than raw power.

I expect we'll get a low effort league layered with nerfs and QoL leading into PoE2 hype 2 - 3 months in.

Who knows, I might be wrong but tbf we are due a nerf league.

Heh. Thought occurs to me. Maybe Path 2 is the ultimate nerf league. The league nerfed so hard it became its own new game. And with Path of Exile 2 being the ultimate Permanent Nerf League where interesting build decisions matter more than chasing numbers, Grinding Gear can just keep stacking the numbers in Path the First to increasingly ludicrous and unsustainable levels forever, because anyone who gets fed up with chasing 500T pinnacle DPS just to clear red maps has a whole other game for people who want their game to make sense again enjoy being nerfed into the ground.

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Zionyaru wrote:

Who knows, I might be wrong but tbf we are due a nerf league.

I agree here. With how Mark handled the necro changes, aka "Deal with it", I think we are going to get a big hammer soon.

Not that it matters to me personally, as I've pretty much given up on PoE1. I guess I'm morbidly curious how Neon is going to steer the ship now that he is the game director.

Necropolis was quite the bumpy start on his maiden voyage tbh, with their worst retention numbers percentage wise ever. (That's alot of leagues and clunkers to surpass)

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Necropolis was quite the bumpy start on his maiden voyage tbh, with their worst retention numbers percentage wise ever. (That's alot of leagues and clunkers to surpass)

Based take for someone who hasn't even played the league at all.
Numbers on steam mean literally nothing in this case as you have to include many different factors as well like release date of the league and other game releases along with the league content on it's own.

This league people did quit fast as they were able to finish their own goals much faster than usual.
Most people only create their one league character and gear it up, maybe do the challenges along the way and quit after week 3-4.
Gearing up with amazing gear was by the way pretty much easy this league with the close to free semi mirror tier graveyard crafted gear, but hey again you wouldn't know cause you didn't played the league to have the first hand experience :^)

Necropolis wasn't ambitious, it was one of least inspired and worst leagues ever. It had the worst retention ever, even worse than the Kalandra disaster.

Delve, Heist, Betrayal, Archnemesis (added Eldritch bosses/shrines)...those were ambitious.

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Pashid wrote:

Numbers on steam mean literally nothing in this case.

How in the fuck is your personal feels, or vibe you had objective on any measure? The data is the data, LITERALLY. What a terrible argument.

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This league people did quit fast

You dont say! [Removed by Support]

Subjectively speaking Necropolis wasn't good by most accounts I've seen, which is supported by the data. You don't to have physically touch the fire to see something is burning.

Subjective personal anecdote from someone who did play a chunk of the league: gravecrafting was clearly and obviously very powerful but also incessantly finicky. You needed to build up dozens and dozens of the correct corpses to have any chance of crafting even one reasonable piece of gear; I swiftly stopped bothering with gravecrafting and instead simply focused on monkeying around with the Lantern of Ahrimor mechanic. The system honestly felt more make-worky and annoying than Harvest League's original iteration with the garden maintenance, which I honestly found kinda neat and enjoyed monkeying with.

Gravecrafting was an interesting idea, but in practice turned out to mostly just be frustrating to deal with even for all its power. I do hope the Lantern of Ahrimor mechanic sticks around in some way though, being able to monkey with the mob packs on a map is a fascinating way of adjusting for difficulty without spending a billion chaos rerolling maps a trillion times.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

How in the fuck is your personal feels, or vibe you had objective on any measure? The data is the data, LITERALLY. What a terrible argument.

Your personal feeling of "source: trust me bro just look at some useless statistics" isn't really helpful or even a measurement at all either as it comes down to many more factors and even hidden unreleased numbers.
Players finishing their goals faster is in fact also not a indicator of a bad league.
Maybe bad in terms of the longibility of the league but we always had leagues that kept people busy for a longer time and less time before.


Going after and putting all trust into some inaccurate steam numbers or numbers in general is a quite bold move, but hey it's a complex topic so no surprise that lots of people fall for the steam charts bait all the time. :)

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1453R wrote:

Subjective personal anecdote from someone who did play a chunk of the league: gravecrafting was clearly and obviously very powerful but also incessantly finicky. You needed to build up dozens and dozens of the correct corpses to have any chance of crafting even one reasonable piece of gear;

Exactly more like proper experience of someone who actually engaged with the league mechanic and had the experience of the outcome vs someone who didn't touched the league at all or barely crafted anything with it.
With the proper setup you could gatentee quite a lot of perfect or desired outcomes right away within a single attempt or just a few, which is already pretty powerful on it's own if you think about how long it would take to craft perfect items without, yet alone get perfect double or triple fractured double influenced items as crafting base, something that wasn't even possible before the league.
Early 6* t1 mods with close to no effort required also made the game easier.
Litteraly the easiest crafting ever by just mapping and collecting corpse along the way with buying some missing components.

And even if you did not crafted items yourself you did benefit from the large supply of dirt cheap perfect items on the market which caused players to accomplish their goals much much faster along with the easy currency by selling corpse.


I can agree with the lantern tho and I do hope they keep it or reintroduce it later into the core game as it's quite a refreshing mapping experience in many ways.

How would third party Steam statistics be "trust me bro"? Wut?

If you don't trust Steam for some reason... fine I guess? But it aint got anything to do with me. The numbers are there. Whether or not you believe them, or to the degree they are relevant is actually besides the point. Being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian doesn't help any points you are trying to make.

Anyways support isn't happy with me so I guess I will be done in this thread. Well played I suppose. Necropolis was successful apparently, despite everything I read, and saw.

I mean, I was mostly agreeing with you, Darth. The guy seems to reject anything but personal first-hand anecdotes so I was providing an "I tried the league but it didn't really work great for me" anecdote.

Doesn't shock me, though. These days, people seem to have an absolutely pathological distrust of data, science, and any sort of information source that isn't Cousin Okri down the lane. Not just in PoE, but in life in general. Somehow, experts with math and data on their side have become The Enemy and I cannot fathom how or why. It's incredibly depressing.