Why not throw the ring into the sea?
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First of all, thanks for answering. It is not a trap, I genuinly didn't understand what data-mining 10 years of data regarding trade has had to do with anything else on the list.
I think I understand now. The data mining allows botting to be easier/possible? I guess that 10 year old data still doesn't matter in that case. Based on changes to items, popularity of items etc your data from last league might even be obsolete already. I agree that bots are a problem. a solution to reduce botting is something I can't come up with since I have no clue about the current complexity of a bot and how hard it is to detect them. Now to a few things that I don't understand, mainly probably because you feel complied to use fancy words or abbreviations that are hard to understand, even after googling it (if I google BSD, I get a german government branch for example). Not everyone here is a native english speaker, mind you. So what is BSD? Would be a good thing to have an idea about since you use it as a comparison. What are anti-cheat measures supposed to do? Block every 3rd-party tool that can influence your game? Stop the game from starting while other tools are running on your system? Stop scripts? And then to the things I am not 100% in agreeance with: Why do we need to be able to save/import/export passive trees? You are making it sound like PoB should stay, so you can use that without importing a passive tree into the game. While it would be a nice little QoL-change, I think speaking of a must have here is not necessary. Also, it looks like this will be a thing in PoE2, at least there is thoughts about implementing such if I remember correctly. information on how x item affects your character - We do have that already. Just because there is not an arrow up, arrow down thing like in other games, it is still there (I am using it ingame quite a bit). Since there is no soulbind, put items on and see how stats change? Or do you want a list of all the attributes an item can change in PoE in a pop-up while hovering over it? And finally my biggest gripe: " First of, words are probably easier to track than actual RMT and therefore, if a person writes something that is against ToS, a ban is totally justified. But at what point can you say that a person is doing RMT (which should be the only bannable thing)? I personally have had a phase in my life when I was chronically online, playing an MMORPG for up to 12h a day without a break. Never did any RMT but did trade a lot, made a lot of ingame currency as well. Should I have been banned in that game? If a User who is online a lot offers a mirror-worthy item to be mirrored without a fee, should they be banned? Probably not. So you would need to seperate a person who offers an item to be mirrored from a person who does a mirror service with a fee. How to detect that though if people tip the person who is offering it for free? Those are just my thoughts way to early on a sunday morning, I am sure the matter is more complicated than that if you look behind the scenes. If they just start wildly banning people, they might get a random hit but it will mostly affect people who have nothing to do with the problem. |
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" First, to answer your remarks:
Spoiler
1. Yep, it was a trap. Here you are doing exactly what I foresaw you would do.
2. BSD? I wrote Battle State Games (BSG) and specifically told you they where the developers of Escape From Tarkov. Still you say Google couldn't find anything? 🤣 3. There are millions if not billions or trillions of people in middle-earth. Who cares what you or I think, the only people that matter in this discussion are in the Fellowship of the ring. We are not the main character here. Second, datamining / bots / rmt are all linked.
Spoiler
Data mining gives you information on how to best approach the game.
Bots in short, bots: ✅ 🤖 are market makers. ✅ 🤖 amass wealth for the owner(s). ✅ 🤖 amass currency needed to craft mirror-tier items. ✅ 🤖 get added to people's friend list, for fast and easy trades. ✅ 🤖 offer items with a markup (that's their profit). ✅ 🤖 drive the price of items UP (not only because of the markup, but also because RMT sellers don't care for the tiny currency items... they care for the top tier ones, because those fetch the highest dollar-per-item) ✅ 🤖 are dumb simplified auction houses. They provide the owners with asynchronous + automatic trades. They just go in and collect when they need, like getting something from the mail box. RMT is the final link is how binary data becomes real life currency. It's the reason why they fight the market so hard to always increase the price of everything (even when the demand is going down, because people stop playing 2 weeks into a league... Want people to stay longer GGG? How about a fair playground? that's a start) Finally, I can give you a concrete example... but I must preface with this: Sadly, due to GGG's policies I need to protect the identity of the people involved. Sorry, but that's the way it is. Regardless, by the time you read this GGG would already have this information and my database at their disposal. I guess their reaction or not will speak volumes. So... let's create 3 hypothetical names. MR.A (me), MR. B, MR. C, ... MR.X. You get it, everyone is a green frog that looks exactly the same as the other person with an alphabet letter to distinguish them. 
Spoiler
I was gathering open-source intelligence on the mirror-tier market. Managed to create a database that links mirror-tier items to a person (physical or moral).
Unsurprisingly, the largest group has the largest inventory. Unsurprisingly, the people that where lieutenants of that group and came out saying "WE DO RMT, WE SELL IT TO X, DO SOMETHING!". A rough estimate, these cheaters contributed to about 1/3 of the total inventory of that group. Inventory that was never removed from the game and that group still benefits to this dayy.  All of that was previously reported by MR.B. MR.B's problem is that he rants and gets too excited. So, it's hard to follow, especially when a video is longer than 15 minutes (all of them are longer). Regardles... Nothing happened to MR. X. Nothing happened to the group... and more importantly, nothing happened to the mirror-tier items that were created through cheating. In short, they cheated, admitted to cheating, and still get to profit from those items. When I see this, I make a post on this forum. I show a graph and people freak out. They quickly realize I could connect the dots and that's usually the hardest part for a lot of people. Just look at this post. So... People from that group hop in this form and start inventing accusations out of THIN AIR and rage baiting and doing ad homminem. Doing everything in their power to get the post removed. The post gets removed because "it was too controversial". 😵💫 I keep digging and I find a group of bots all named in succession. Fake-name-A Fake-name-B Fake-name-C All the way down to Z. I report that and nothing happend. That bot farm is directly connected to MR. D a co-founder with MR.X. IF you are keeping up with math that's roughly half or more of their inventory. Fast forward almost a year... I see nothing's happened, so I send my database to MR.B I'm hoping MR.B will assemble a team to gather even more information so we can present that to GGG. At first, he was happy to finally show in an easy manner how to link cheater A with RMT group A, but then he cut off all comms. After the stream I start to read on the messages I've received. Many people asking for the database. One of them, MR. C wants it because... and I quoute: "hi, idk if you know me, but some ppl from slavic _ _ _ alternative that also have deep connections with botters / rmt have asked me if you could share the database with them, they could also help with inputs i assume" 🤦♂️Now, this guy is monumentally dim. I guess most of us hope that criminals are masterminds, but in reality, that's often not the case. MR.C is using weapons of mass destruction on the market, and nobody cares, and everyone needs to work harder to deal with the inflation he causes just so that his friends can pocket more money through RMT. Got it now? or are you still confused about something?
Spoiler
 Now, if this is what I can do with 0 budget and an afternoon of gathering open source (literally getting the ads for these mirror-tier items, reading reddit, reading this forum, etc)... imagine what a multi-million dollar company like GGG could do with a week or a year of work by actual developers or if they took a multidisciplinary approach. I'm sending the database to GGG now. I hope all of the alphabet fake accounts get a ban, I hope MR.B gets investigated, I hope MR.C gets a ban, and I hope MR.X finally gets a ban. I hope to see 1/3 of the inventory get deleted because the creators themselves said it was done through cheating. As a side note, if MR.B gets investigated and nothing happens every single person on this game needs to sub to him, just as a thanks and because it would prove that his strategies work and he is 100% legitimate. MR.B apologies in advance, but I must know the truth. Hell! Maybe MR. C is directly naming him on his guild to implicate him into something he has nothing to do about... I think this would me, so I'm going to call myself "MR.A". I just want this game to improve and for us to have a fair playground, because right now it's just toddlers fighting MMA fighters. Or, or, or... GGG can choose to do nothing, and we will see how that plays out... but I got a feeling that it's just going to get worse. A lot worse. Who knows... I could be wrong on this maybe i have Cassandra's curse? 🤣 Again, we cannot confirm or deny any identity. It's against forum policies. Any resemblance to an actual player is pure coincidence. I just named the frogs alphabetically. It would be incredibly frustrating if I could name a frog with a letter of the alphabet and be able to use most of the letters on the alphabet and match it with real players... Spoilers, I can. That should give you a hint of the magnitude of the problem. Now, what SHOULD happen is GGG takes this retrospective, observational, and outdated database and attempts to create one of their own. If I did it with little to no programming knowledge in an afternoon, I'm sure they can do a much better one in less than a week. My final words. I love this game. All of this effort comes from a place of love. I think, if we all had a full ring none of us would be special, and truly special players will rise naturally through their God-given talent and hard work. I also think that if we get a full ring and there is no need for third-party tools we are going to be learning so much about how an actual market place works. A fair market place. A marketplace with actual rules that are truly enforced. Now, that sounds like a better experience and a better place to be for all of us.  Or, or, or... we can continue to hide the sun with our thumb. 👍☀️😎 Gonna touch grass now. POE 2 > Twin-stick shooter with DS-like bosses, no crafting just gamba, no zen.
POE 1 > aRPG, amazing crafting, can be zen. D2 > zen, no crafting, rune words. |
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That's really cool that you are datamining this stuff, but you could reach a lot more people if you weren't so freaking condescending. Not only does it make you a much less likable person, it hurts your arguably just cause.
However you choose to conduct yourself, I do hope it results in that cesspool to be removed from PoE. The opposite of knowledge is not illiteracy, but the illusion of knowledge. Last edited by ArtCrusade#4438 on Feb 4, 2024, 4:52:29 PM
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" So, I fought through this post, even though after your first spoiler, I was very tempted not to. I am sorry that I am not familiar with Battle State Games and Escape from Tarkov, never played the game. Also, I wrote that I read this on an early sunday morning, so if I read over a thing, you could have thought so far as well, since I also mentioned that I have had some difficulties trying to read your unnecessarily complicatetly written paragraphs. Not going to say sorry again since all you do is being very much so condescending, trying to avoid a sensible discussion and just want to splurge your "data-mined" stuff (which is kind of obvious to me now since you didn't engage with anything else I wrote in this whole thread bar the posts that in the end lead to the discussion you wanted to have in the first place). My stance is and will always be: A game has ToS. Anyone not following the ToS should be banned if there is sufficient proof. If there is sufficient proof and the people in charge don't act, there is probably a loss of credibility there. As to what constitutes as enough proof, that is in every persons subjective view with the distinction of 100% proof. About the current state of affairs, I don't know anything about it because I don't use any of these 3rd party tools or sites and just play the game, which is weirdly enough still possible. |
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 I can't pick my favorite ad hominem.
Spoiler
It's either the one dude that only does ad hominem or the one dude that pretends to have a language barrier, refuses to use google or chatgpt to help him understand, demands an ELI5, then complains about the ELI5, but writes better than me. 🤣
I do have to say, it's a lot easier to write when you are on the defense. You don't have to walk around eggshells. You don't need to censor yourself. You don't need to avoid making accusations. You don't have to admit any testimony. You don't have to admit any evidence. All you have to do is come up with a random ad hominem or rage bait. Kinda crazy how that works. Now... we have 3 dangerous frasses that are thrown around casually: 1. Just play SSF / I don't use any third-party tool.
Spoiler
On SSF:
- It's just nieche, the vast majority of people prefer trade leagues. - Actually, if PoE was just a single player game (always SSF in ghost towns) I would have stopped playing a looOOoooOoong time ago. Like we've all done so far. - The little data we have speaks volumes (https://steamcommunity.com/stats/PathofExile/achievements) and it doesn't look too aspirational. It looks like most people quit before even experiencing the game. On not using any third party tool: It is possible, but highly unlikely (no third party discord, no datamining websites like poewiki / poedb, no character planning tool like PoB). It's technically possible, but highly unlikely. Specially, because the first introduction you will likely get is from some youtube / streamer advertising all those tools. As matter of fact, almost everyone recommends you follow a build. Then what happens? Guys like that math-guy-that-got-banned and his database scour the internet for what's trending and price gouge every new player OUT of the game, unless they click that ad or decipher that crypted spam text in global and find a quick solution to their problem. 2. What does it mean to win in an aRPG?
Spoiler
Quinn69, legally and ethically (the running joke) defeated ALL of the end-game bosses in HC-SSF. That's what winning looks like in an aRPG.
3. Builds are subjective, it depends on what your goal is
Spoiler
How about beating the game once? Why is it that nobody that says this phrase ever thinks about the average player beating the entire game at least ONCE. Why is it that everyone that says this automatically thinks on endless heisting? or a lab runner? or an invitation farmer?
That's the problem with this game. The first goal, is to find a nieche you may or may not like to play, exploit it until you have 100-300 divines. It used to be a lot less, but as time goes on and the toolmaker greed and power extends the price just keeps going UP. By the first month most players have bought their way to beating the game or have been taken advantage off until they can't afford to continue playing and they quit. It doesn't matter where you live, everywhere you go there is a "BAD PART OF TOWN". A place where all sorts of crime can or will happen. You see the videos, you read the news, you hear the testimonies. There is always something bad happening there. The fact that we still have a "BAD PART OF TOWN" speaks volumes. Some might say: "If there is sufficient proof and the people in charge don't act, there is probably a loss of credibility there". POE 2 > Twin-stick shooter with DS-like bosses, no crafting just gamba, no zen.
POE 1 > aRPG, amazing crafting, can be zen. D2 > zen, no crafting, rune words. |
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That might be where your problem actually is. You believe it's "me vs everyone else" when really people just wanted to understand what you're about and you were a massive jerk in your responses.
It is what it is. Good luck, exile. The opposite of knowledge is not illiteracy, but the illusion of knowledge.
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GGG moderators must've had a field day policing this thread :)
Probably had to pull night shifts too. |
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It is a well made troll thread, I have to give it to him. I have fun reading his shit.
Current Build: Penance Brand
God build?! https://pobb.in/bO32dZtLjji5 |
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No more stress only doubt... glad i never went on THAT forum.
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" At this point, I guess only a mirror would help. Good luck with your part of your Ring (btw, "There is only one lord of the rings, and he does not share power" , so your whole ring analogy in context is impossible from the very start with splitting it into parts). And I'll take my writing better than you as a compliment I guess. Cheers. |
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